Jcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 996 posts, RR: 6 Posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3525 times:
I can't believe what some people must have thought when they saw this plane. A CO 777 carrying military back from Iraq was authorized to overfly NYC, as well as lower Manhattan and do several loops. Anyway, 3000 feet in a 777 looks REALLY low over Manhattan... Here's a link to the story...
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16261 posts, RR: 52 Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3463 times:
"This was a Continental jet chartered by the military to ferry back soldiers from the Middle East. Witnesses say the plane made a couple of loops around Lower Manhattan before flying over midtown headed to Newark airport. "
"The crew was approved to give the troops on board a bird's eye view of Manhattan. But for those on the ground, it was a little too close for comfort."
"The NYPD said it was alerted ahead of time that a military aircraft would be over Manhattan and it had government clearance."
Redngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 51 Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3356 times:
I just did the expressway visual four days ago on the way into LGA... but in a 737-800... at 6000 ft. They should have made a radio announcement or something. And since it made several loops... I'm sure some people were browning their pants.
777gk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 20 Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3305 times:
Excellent! A good friend of mine was at the controls of this one, and, if anything, I can guarantee to you that he was more than happy to make some passes over Lower Manhattan for the boys.
Back in the early 1990s, I was working as a FO on a 747-100 (PF) on a CRAF charter home after the Gulf War, and we were permitted to make a low-level pass over the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island. I dropped her down to 3000, pushed it up, did a little waggle as we buzzed the Statue, then dipped the starboard tip, came back around over Ellis Island, then shot back out over the Atlantic to begin a northbound approach to EWR 4L. Certainly one of the most exhilarating experiences in my entire flying career. Still, maneuvers like this were not only permitted, but at this time, they were encouraged!
Good to see some friends of mine having a little fun! I'll certainly give him a call tonight...
Jcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 996 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3223 times:
First off, the news got it wrong. The Expressway visual is over Brooklyn, Queens, and then over the LIE to Shea Stadium then to LGA.... The route they flew is pretty much the approach to the LDA or ILS to RWY22, or could have been the River Visual to RWY13.
If you were on the "Expressway Visual" you were probably between 2,000 and 4,000 feet, at least parallel to Manhattan, and to the right of Manhattan. If not, then you were probably over the Hudson, and made that 180 degree turn and then came in over the water to RWY22.. Most a/c there are as you said like 5,000 to 6,000'.
I LOVE EWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 852 posts, RR: 8 Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3120 times:
777gk, I would be very interested to here what your friend had to say about this. I am glad that he requested and was given the permission to give our troops a scenic tour. What routes have you been working lately?
Ndege From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 204 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2960 times:
I could make some comments on ultra-sensitivity and people needing to get on with their lives, but I'm sure it would get me flamed. Oops, I just made the comments.
I really think the people of the world, especially of New York, are blowing this out of proportion. Though I've never personally witnessed an airplane crash either deliberately or accidentally, I can say that if I had in fact witnessed such a thing I wouldn't be waiting for every plane I see every day to "fall out of the sky" and kill people. The events of 11 September 2001 were definitely tragic and sad, and I'm not trying to downplay that by any means. I'm just saying, ffs, it was a plane flying on a government cleared route and it, like thousands of other flights a day, did not crash. Thousands of flights take off and land successfully every day, as I'm sure we're all aware. There aren't a hell of a lot of crashes, and even fewer hijackings. People just choose to be paranoid, but I really have no idea why.
Jhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6195 posts, RR: 13 Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
I just hope nobody gets in trouble for this. I know the pilots weren't breaking any rules, but hopefully the ATC won't have to answer for this. I certainly see no problem with giving military heros a much deserved tour of the Statue of Liberty on their return flight to the states.
While these scenic tours certainly pose no threat, the fear of New Yorkers isn't completely unjustified. I mean, if you worked in the WTC and then suddenly see an unusually low flying airliner making out of the ordinary circles in the vicinity of Manhattan (around the exact same time of day as the 9/11 attacks), you'd probably feel a little uneasy too; it's just human phychology. That said, perhaps the prudent thing to do is to notify the public when one of these specific events are planned, in order to prevent mass hysteria and mishaps on the surface (i.e. car accidents, etc.) These people were scared because they weren't expecting it; and in a high density area of millions of people, this could cause some problems for people still recovering from 9/11.
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
Flyboy36y From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3039 posts, RR: 8 Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2786 times:
I can say that if I had in fact witnessed such a thing I wouldn't be waiting for every plane I see every day to "fall out of the sky" and kill people.
No you can't.
How can you say you know what you would do??? I've seen plenty of planes cras (or their immediate aftermath). I saw both planes on 9/11. I live near AA 587. I saw a Cessna crash killing 3. I saw a cessna crash cripling 3. My friend crashed his cessna once. WI walked through the debris of a learjet crash. I saw a barron crash. I was in a aircraft emergency that damaged the aircraft.
I, at times, look up and wonder if a plane will crash. Not cuz of terrorists, but because I know they can.
That sad, idiots should move on. This is retatded...
Artsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4741 posts, RR: 43 Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2578 times:
This just seems like a load of hype about nothing at all. I wonder how long before Delta, UAL, American etc all start releasing statements about how it was in really bad taste for Continental to do this...
Redngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 51 Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2426 times:
Well, I was on a DL 737-800, we came up the Hudson River, turned right at about Riverdale/Bronx North, and crossed over Van Cortlandt Park to the southern tip of New Rochelle; came in along the Sound shore over City Island and landed on Rwy 22.
So that isn't really the Expressway Visual then... And yes, we must have been at about 6,000 ft. while coming up the west side of Manhattan... I was really shocked by the hole left at the WTC site. I used to feel like I could reach out and touch the towers. It was my first time flying by since 9-11.
Matt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 51 Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2411 times:
Just playing Devils Advocate here, but what would there be to be nervous about? Now that the Twin Towers are felled (and evidently will never be rebuilt), there really isn't anything left high enough in NYC for a plane the size of a 777 to hit-save for the Empire State Building-which is built like a brick shithouse and would not suffer anywhere near the amount of damage the WTC did.
Petazulu From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 701 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2373 times:
Off the top of my head:
Wall Street (not a tall building- but damage could be extensive)
Citcorp Building, Met Life (former PanAm), Crysler Bulding, Statue of Liberty,
Madison Square Garden, Any building near Times Square, Trump Tower, Nuclear Power Plant (30 miles up river from New York), GW bridge, Verrazano Narrows Bridge, Oil refineries, etc.
There are plenty of large targets with the potential to do a lot of damage.
N777UA From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2363 times:
Remember the Empire State Building has already been hit by an airplane in 1945...a B29 I believe it was. I know it wasn't a 777, but the ESB is structurally far stronger than the WTC was, and probably could withstand a jetliner strike.
25 PROSA: Please don't start PROSA, not like Subtalk. Hey, at least I didn't use my favorite Subtalk term, "paranoid bedwetting cowards"
26 Braniff727: I think the obvious solution to this is to not allow planes near New York period. If you want to visit, you should take a train. Grow up.
27 PROSA: I think the obvious solution to this is to not allow planes near New York period. If you want to visit, you should take a train. Grow up. While you su
28 Petazulu: Braniff Guy, How would you propose to do that? Shut down NYC's airports? That is what you would need to do. Also, hundreds of flights overfly New York
29 Braniff727: Further detail of my post: sarcasm Sar"casm, n. [F. sarcasme, L. sarcasmus, Gr. sarkasmo`s, from sarka`zein to tear flesh like dogs, to bite the lips
30 Vermeer: NDEGE, I am not flaming you here but I Do live in Manhattan and I have seen one of the twoplanes crashing and, although I am an airline enthusiast, I
31 B757300: Remember the Empire State Building has already been hit by an airplane in 1945...a B29 I believe it was. I know it wasn't a 777, but the ESB is struct
32 Manzoori: Hmmm, Interesting thread. As it happens I was in Manhattan just last week. We'd arrive on a Qantas 747-400 from LA and our route into JFK was rather i
33 Bigphilnyc: But anyway, I dont understand the hysteria. Planes on River Visual 13 Approach over the Hudson actually fly at, I would say, between 1,500 and 1,800 f
34 PROSA: New Yorkers are not noted for their courage. A joke of mine is that if I walked in front of the New York Stock Exchange at lunch with a dish towel ove
35 Aloges: I just heard about it one more time on the radio. Guess what, the guy talked about a jumbo jet. SIGH!
36 Dan2002: "New Yorkers are not noted for their courage. A joke of mine is that if I walked in front of the New York Stock Exchange at lunch with a dish towel ov
37 PROSA: New Yorkers are not noted for their courage. A joke of mine is that if I walked in front of the New York Stock Exchange at lunch with a dish towel ove
38 Petazulu: Prosa, In case it wasn't obvious to you why New York is a bigger and juicier target than almost anywhere else outside the White House: Capital of Worl
39 Petazulu: Prosa, Given that you equate security measures with being chickensh*t, what you propose to do? I'd like to hear your solution in light of the recent b
40 747-451: Ndege, "I could make some comments on ultra-sensitivity and people needing to get on with their lives, but I'm sure it would get me flamed" Before you
41 777236ER: Sensitivity? Why should someone lose their job over something so subjective? There are people who think AA and UAL should be out of business for the "
42 Lt-AWACS: We looped over NYC ground zero going over last year, these are fairly common events, though we were not that low. Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns, Lt-AWACS,
43 NoUFO: It's not paranoia but rather a result from a personal experience New Yorkers show. Normally, you learn from history and experiences and act according
44 Bigphilnyc: Prosa, how do you think OTHER cities would have reacted? Do you think that other cities would not put metal detectors in their biggest of attractions
45 Petazulu: Go big phil! I think he was just trying to rile us NYC guys up. When I asked him to explain himself in greater detail regarding security measures and
46 PROSA: Prosa, how do you think OTHER cities would have reacted? I really don't know. Hopefully, not as drastically. Maybe they'd be better able to realize th
47 PROSA: I think he was just trying to rile us NYC guys up. When I asked him to explain himself in greater detail regarding security measures and cowardice, th
48 PROSA: There are people who think AA and UAL should be out of business for the "security breaches" that they "let" happen. Witness the lawsuits filed against
49 Petazulu: Some good points there PROSA. But it is full of holes! You seem to acknowledge that there are terrorists out there that we should hunt down, yet you a
50 Bigphilnyc: So does that mean that we shouldn't exercise ANY measrues of security protection, and make it EASY for terrorists to walk into the ESB with weapons? I