Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Airbus A318, A Shrink To Far?  
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6601 times:

I see it is 10.000 kg heavier then e.g. Embraer 190/195.

How much fuel is that at say 2100 flights a year ?

Tail, Wings everything seems oversized ....

You can see it is too heavy ..


IMO this one looks better balanced ...




58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLHR340 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 877 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6407 times:

This thing is ugly  Smile I like Airbus but the tail is to big or looks to big - the wings look OK to me.

LHR340



A340 LoVeR! EC-GQK - LHR The Bussiest International Airport & 3rd Bussiest In The World!
User currently offlineAirbus Lover From Malaysia, joined Apr 2000, 3248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6389 times:

Again, the A318 is not really meant to be a competitor to any RJ in the 100 seat range. the A318 is designed for long thin routes up to 5000kms hauling 100 pax as opposed to the like of B717, Embraer 190/195 or the sort whose missions are to do many many cycles in one day on short hops.

User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6308 times:

I don not believe Air France, America West, British Airways, EgyptAir, Frontier Airlines will use the A318 on many routes longer then say 3000km.

They fly those international routes with "larger" aircraft (>125 seat).


User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6288 times:

They did make the A318's tail larger, including the front extension a la 737-300 through -900, for more stability.

http://www.airbus.com/media/drawings.asp

DIA



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5873 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6255 times:

Yes, the A318s tail is so much larger that, in fact, Frontier will not be able to use several of it's gates at home hub Denver airport. You may have seen the pics of the 319's taxying under the "only walkway over an active taxiway in the world." Well, someone on this board said a few days ago that the 318 won't fit under the walkway.

R


User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6248 times:

The A318 is a niche player for airlines which need a few small planes but don't want to add a completly new type to their fleet.

User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6197 times:

Read the remark in this photo, you'll understand then.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tim Samples



DIA



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25426 posts, RR: 86
Reply 8, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6066 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

There's a simple reason why Airbus made the tail bigger - so Frontier's "critters" would look good.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

And yes, it would fit under the airbridge - tightly. The clearance is 42 feet. The A318 tail is six inches less than that. So they're not going to risk it - for the moment - but simply park the planes on the north side of the terminal.

Will it be a "niche" aircraft? Maybe. But hey, nothing wrong with "niche" aircraft.

Or does everything have to be the same these days?

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAtcboy73 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6035 times:

That TAM looks awesome !!!


I want one!


User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5990 times:

Keesjse,

Actually, EgyptAir and British Airways have already dismissed the A318, converting their orders into other A32Xs.

Regards,

Hamlet69



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3296 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5986 times:

It looks like the A318 will be the ultimate SHORT BUS!


.......
User currently offlineSonic From Lithuania, joined Jan 2000, 1670 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5987 times:

Lithuanian Airlines for instance makes a good use of these around 100 seats medium haul planes. They operated the following over the time:

Yakovlev Yak-42
Boeing 737-200
Boeing 737-300
Boeing 737-500

The farthest route with such planes was Vilnius-Dubai (4079km / 2202nm).


User currently offlineSunCEO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 359 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5859 times:

When is the A318 due to enter service? I though it was a year ago?

Rgds,
SunCEO.


User currently offlineDC-10 Levo From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 3432 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5837 times:

No A318 wearing a proper livery in the database, so I'm guessing they haven't received them yet.

I'm not sure, but I think BA have some on order.

DC-10


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25426 posts, RR: 86
Reply 15, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5820 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

DC-10 Levo:

The first A318 doesn't come to Frontier until early July. The critter on the tail is "thong" bear from the new commercials.

The question is, will it (N801FR) be ready in time for the Paris Air Show, and, if it is, will it make an appearance?

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5665 times:

Hamlet, thnx

I think some airlines already switched to larger A32x variants says a lot. If a A318 is hardly cheaper to operate then a A319 well .....

Also the fact that USAirways bought a pile of Embraers while they are a big Airbus operator tells a lot.

Maybe Airbus should have stepped in years ago and made sure this baby had (nearly) full cockpit commonality with the Airbus family....



Common cockpits upto the A330/40 family would have given them (with Fairchild Donier) a unique selling point in the marketplace.


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9903 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5642 times:

Keesje,

Maybe US Airways order for regional jets has to do with the A318 being a new aircraft of which the operating stats are not available. The ERJ and CRJ have proven themselves as being good regional jets, whereas the A318 still has to prove itself (it's not a true regional jet). All Airbus aircraft have full cockpit commonality, including the A318 which belongs in the A320 family. As AirbusLover already stated, the A318 is not meant as a direct competitor to other regional jets, such as the ERJ and CRJ. The A318 is a heavier aircraft with a bigger range, whereas the reigonal jets usually fly shorter sectors.

Regards A388


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5629 times:

A388, the Embraer 170 family US ordered are not proven.
The A318 comes from a well proven family ...

I don´t think are are much sectors were either the Em190 or A319
is not a better choice then the A318 ...

It would be a very, very small niche .... too small probably ...


User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5610 times:

DC-10 Levo,
yes I also recall that BA didn't cancel/convert all of the 318s on order.
Unless things have changed again....



` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineBritair From United Kingdom, joined Aug 1999, 933 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5581 times:

BA converted all their A318 orders for A321's.

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25426 posts, RR: 86
Reply 21, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5536 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Keesje:

The fact that US Air bought Embraers does lot a lot.

The fact that they bought an equal (or greater?) number of Canadair RJ's tells a lot, too.

Such as: US Air doesn't need the range of the A318 - they need a short hop plane.

The fact that BA converted their A318 orders to A321's tells us a lot, too. Times change. The whole nature of BA's short haul operation has changed post 9/11.

Why jump straight from the smallest, the A318 - to the largest, the A321? Why not go for the A319 or the A320?

That says a lot more about what's happening at BA than it does about the A318.

cheers

mariner




aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDC-10 Levo From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 3432 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5513 times:

They converted all their A318's on order to A321's???

The BA livery would have looked very nice on the A318 aswell.

So who else has some on order? It can't just be F9.

DC-10


User currently offlineBFS From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 743 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5498 times:

I take it the A318 is based completely on the A320 cross-section and thus will be able to accomodate the cargo containers that its competitors can't? Its not really my particular area of expertise, but would this not be an advantage?

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25426 posts, RR: 86
Reply 24, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5507 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

DC-10:

Air France and America West. Plus about 45 from leasing companies, for a total of 84 orders.

Like the B717, the plane hasn't sold well, but for different reasons.

It may very well end up as a niche airliner, as someone suggested, but hey, some airlines need niche planes.

After the prototype flew, and thus the capabilities were known, Frontier had the opportunity to convert their orders as well.

They chose to stick with the A318 (which also tells us quite a lot), but with different engines (CFM instead of the troublesome PW).

So Frontier became the launch customer.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 Ha763 : BFS, While using the same cross-section as the rest of the A320 family, the A318 is bulk only. Apparently, the cargo door is too close to the wing.
26 Positive rate : I don't like the A318- it's too short. For some reason shorter jets with wing mounted engines don't look good at all- except the 737-200. A short t-ta
27 Sean-SAN- : I like the A318.. it looks overpowered, so it'll prolly be a hoot to fly for the pilots.
28 DIA : Short and stubby has always been a good look: 707-100, 721, 732, 747SP, 762, A310, DC-8-10/20/30/40/50, DC-9-10/20/30, L1011-500, EMB-170. . .etc. And
29 Kramri : If the 318 only has 6 inches of clearance under the walking bridge at DEN, then F9 can't take it under. As I recall, the airport authority only allows
30 Elwood64151 : Six inches, huh? That's not a lot of clearance. Since DEN is one of the busiest US airports, and UA is a major Airbus operator, they might have consid
31 Post contains images Mariner : Kramri: I'm not sure what all this fuss about the Denver airbridge is. A 747 won't go under it, either. Frontier have enough gates on the north side o
32 Kramri : The pedestrian bridge at DEN links Jeppeson Terminal to concourse A (map on www.flydenver.com). The 13 gates on the south side of the concourse are th
33 Greg : It was in EADS best interest to let FD go under. Although they are a component manufacturer...they also hold an financial interest in Embraer. Boeings
34 Post contains images Kramri : Mariner, I not sure I understand what "fuss" your talking about. You mentioned that there was 6" of clearance. "And yes, it would fit under the airbri
35 Mariner : Kramri: The "fuss" is not so much on this thread. It is frequently used against the A318 - check several threads. They may, indeed, never get permissi
36 Pe@rson : I am all for smaller capacity planes, such as the A318. Indeed, I think that airlines should use smaller planes on as many routes as possible (as slot
37 Kramri : Mariner Thanks for the clarification. I just added what I knew about the DEN bridge to what both you and DIA had mentioned. I have no problem with the
38 Post contains images Mariner : Kramri: I think we both agree, and if I over-reacted to you, I apologize. I am also "pro-F9" - I've owned a few shares in it since the bad old days of
39 DIA : From an outsider's point of view. . .Kramri and Mariner: you both are on the same page and in agreement with one another. Pro-F9 it is. . .myself incl
40 Post contains images Mariner : There is, of course, a great in-joke that no one's picked up. The general complaint about the A318 is that it is too heavy. Since I don't think F9's m
41 Sxmarbury33 : Pearson i dont think thats really that good of an idea. The concept is nice but a lot of airlines have already changed to frequency over capacity to t
42 DIA : "Instead the critter on the tail of the first A318 is to be the "thong bear" from the commercials, which is about the "heaviest" looking animal in the
43 Keesje : Comfort wise ... At an RJ like the Embraer it is a 4 abreast seating, so either window or aisle seat. I would not prefer a middle seat on a A318, espe
44 Scottb : I think the problem with the A318, as far as prospective airline customers see it, is that the effective niche for the aircraft is very small. It has
45 Post contains links and images Kramri : DIA: here is an animal list... since F9 is actively cutting the 732's, I'm not sure which 3 are still active...but 737-200 (3): raccoon, elk, mountain
46 Mariner : Scottb: I'm confused. You spent a deal a bandwidth on another thread trying to persuade me that the costs of the A318 were more than somewhat higher t
47 Scottb : Mariner- You're not that dense. You do understand the difference between trip cost and cost per available seat mile (ASM), right? The A318's trip cost
48 Mariner : Scottb: If I'm being dense, so be it. I bow to anyone's superior technical knowledge than my own, which is close to zero. Howsumever, I come back to a
49 Scottb : Mariner- Comparing Maximum Gross Take-Off Weight (MGTOW) between models is fairly meaningless. It tells you nothing directly about the weight of the a
50 Vafi88 : Eventhough the tail might look big or out of place, but it is to bring stability and control to the aircraft much like was done to the '37-600s I beli
51 Mariner : Well, I expect I'm being dense again, but I am sharply reminded of the analyst who said, quite recently, that the glory days of the RJ may be coming t
52 AS_GSC : "If F9 has demand for 60 seats on a route like DEN-OKC, they can either try to fill a mainline airliner with discounted seats or simply take the 50 wh
53 Scottb : There are two main reasons the "glory days of the RJ may be coming to an end." Reason #1 is that just about every major carrier now has or will have a
54 DIA : Well this turned into an interesting read on the A318 stats, capabilities and faults if you will. In any case, thanks for the animal list Kramri. Wher
55 Mariner : (i) "DEN/LGA is not a thin route.: Odd, I was only repeating what F9 CEO Potter called it. Altho' he said "long and lean". (ii) "Juan Trippe did not k
56 Scottb : Mariner- (i) If DEN-LGA is a "lean" route, then everything else out of DEN is ultra-lean. NYC is the #1 destination from DEN, beating out LA, Chicago,
57 EA CO AS : F9's CASM has dropped by 11% since the arrival of the Airbi and the continuing return of the 732's It's hard to argue that having Airbii on the proper
58 Mariner : Scottb: You and I have thrashed thus out now on two different threads, and I doubt we will ever agree because we are arguing from two completely diffe
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Airbus New Order Share Value Shrink To 36 % In 06' posted Wed Nov 22 2006 17:38:56 by OU812
Boeing V. Airbus: A Bridge To Far? posted Mon Jun 12 2006 19:17:40 by Rabbit
Mexicana Close To An Airbus A318 Order posted Sat Jun 7 2003 00:31:53 by Teahan
Airbus Sees End To A380 Cancellations posted Fri Nov 24 2006 08:22:39 by UAEflyer
Airwise.com Says Airbus Not Committed To 350 Yet posted Sun Nov 5 2006 23:33:09 by SSTsomeday
An Airline Cannot Shrink To Profitability posted Thu Nov 2 2006 05:30:14 by MasseyBrown
Airbus Dropped Program To Add Winglets To A320s posted Fri Oct 6 2006 21:15:02 by Terryb99
Enders: Airbus Will Continue To Be Succesfull posted Wed Jul 12 2006 14:15:42 by Manni
Airbus-No Fullstop To Problems Yet? Co-CEO Pickle? posted Sat Jul 8 2006 05:33:22 by Halibut
Mistake On The Airbus A318 Website posted Tue May 16 2006 17:46:04 by Irobertson