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More Delta Mainline Cuts At DFW  
User currently offlineOrd From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1390 posts, RR: 1
Posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4766 times:

It looks like sometime in the next few months Delta will be turning over even more mainline flights at DFW to Delta Connection. Checking the schedules, the two flights to Oakland and two flights to Orange County will become CRJ-700s.

Also, the DFW-JFK flight is gone and not replaced.

These changes will leave Delta with 56 mainline flights (the peak in 1993 was 257):
1 - Albuquerque
11 - Atlanta
3 - Boston
3 - Cincinnati
2 - Ft. Lauderdale
4 - Las Vegas
4 - Los Angeles
3 - NY LaGuardia
3 - Orlando
2 - Portland
6 - Salt Lake City
3 - San Diego
3 - San Francisco
3 - Seattle
3 - Tampa
2 - West Palm Beach

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAA61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4752 times:

I was at DFW today, I saw 1 MD-88 and 1 737-800 of DL that actually moved.


Go big or go home
User currently offlineRajivvyas From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4743 times:

This trend is pretty much common with most other airlines also. NWA is doing the same thing.

User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4699 times:

An RJ from Dallas to Oakland...........Fun?
Maybe. But no meal :-(
-Transaero Boeing 737-200



What now?
User currently offlineYoungDon From United States of America, joined May 2001, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4613 times:

Seems like Delta is slowly conceding the DFW battle to AA.

Oh well, as is such with competition...

Don


User currently offlineAtcboy73 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4536 times:

Does anyone know what the total number of daily departures by Delta and the connection partners after these changes?

User currently offlineSean-SAN- From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 773 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4482 times:

I can understand DL, why promote a money losing hub when they have a soon-to-be codeshare with CO in Houston..

User currently offlineAtcboy73 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4423 times:

Good point there Sean.

Arent the total number of daily departures on the rise at Delta/DFW when you take connection into account?


User currently offlineDeltadude8 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 569 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4393 times:

Does this mean service to Kansas City Int'l (KMCI/MCI) will lose its service to DFW?

User currently offlineOrd From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4251 times:

The service to Kansas City is untouched.

Delta and Delta Connection combined have about 270 departures a day at DFW, up from about 200 or so about five years ago. So yes, the actual number of flights is up even though capacity is down. The peak in 1993 was about 350 I believe.



User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4210 times:

"Also, the DFW-JFK flight is gone and not replaced."

I flew this route on A^A in 2001. There was only one flight per day (MD-80). . .so I wonder if DL has/had only one flight as well? I guess that type of market demand isn't strong enough these days.

Here at DEN, we have Jetblue (one flight) to JFK. Everything else is to EWR and LGA. Even back at Stapleton, we had a daily TWA 727 to JFK, but no one else. Then that switched to a daily Pan Am 727, and sometimes 747, to JFK.

It has always seemed to me that service to JFK is sketchy around any city tin the mountain time zone, including DFW.

Looks like DL is giving up the goose for they're DFW hub. Will A^A pick up the extra slots?

DIA



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineJayDavis From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4165 times:

DL has long ago given up the goose at DFW !!
Unfortunately, the citizens of Dallas/Ft. Worth will be subjected to a
one carrier hub in the next few years......that sucks !!

At least we still have Southwest as an alternate within Texas and
over to New Mexico, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana. It is a shame
that the Wright Amendment won't be repealed.......


Jay


User currently offlineTi717 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4158 times:

DIA
Slots are not an issue at DFW. Lots of Runways for everyone.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

As Listed earlier Delta/Delta connection is not cutting Flights just changing from Mainline flights to RJ's and adding RJ flights. I think there are a few markets that add capacity just with smaller planes (more flight) and a few markets have been added (floater beaches)

TI717



Sir, don't you think we should turn on the runway lights?" "No, that's just what there expecting us to do!"
User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1855 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4141 times:

I guess we all expected this to happen. AA is doing the same thing with ORD, slowly pulling out and giving it to UAL.

User currently offlineOrd From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4127 times:

American is not pulling out of Chicago. It is completely not true.

There was an interesting comparison made by Delta in an industry magazine that shows how a 50-seat CRJ with 43 passengers (86% load) makes money vs. a 737-200 on the same route with 76 passengers (64% load) loses money. Using the RJs keep the DFW hub profitable.


User currently offlineWilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4118 times:

The reason why DL is going thru the effort of adding service with RJs is that there are many loyal DL flyers and FFs.

User currently offlineWilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4117 times:

As far AA giving up to UA.............While UA is in BK..........I don't think so......

User currently offlineJrlander From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4088 times:

I also don't think DL will give up DFW. There are many communities in the SE who use DL service through DFW to connect with the West. Going back to ATL or up to CVG adds times.

User currently offlineTLHFLA From United States of America, joined May 2003, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3970 times:

Somone recently posted that Skywest is eyeballing IAH... There are two Skywest/DL Connection flights to DFW from TLH. I wonder if that means the end of those flights. It could mean the beginning of TLH-IAH flights if Skywest becomes a Continental Express carrier.


Bill in ATL
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6733 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3938 times:

Your TLH-DFW flights are not affected by the new SkyWest/Continental hookup. SkyWest will be flying EMB120's for CO to small markets. TLH-IAH would be a pretty long flight in an EMB120.

DL's relationship with SkyWest is not changing for now and SkyWest continues to take delivery of RJ's for use in both the UA system and the DL system.


User currently offlineDrewwright From United States of America, joined May 2001, 621 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3873 times:

It is hard to believe that Delta once flew L1011's from DFW to MSY and now it will be ERJ's. I am based here in Orlando with CHQ, and we have been told that Delta is planning to expand many services and open new one using our ERJ's. By the end of the summer we will be flying from Dallas to about 10 or so destinations. Some of which, haven't had jet service by Delta in more than a decade.

DRW


User currently offlineExusair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 684 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3860 times:

It's absolutely disgusting what Delta has done to DFW. DFW ran heavy loads before the downsizing of the oepration. Most markets could have used larger a/c and there are several markets that warrented much more than an RJ.

It makes me think that there is some sort of collusion involved. That there is some sort of cash under the table scheme at work here.

The RJ's run full in most of the markets. Will mainline return with larger planes in a few months or will DL be content to make a few bucks as opposed to a bucketful of cash? There seems to be a realization that cuts have gone too deep at DL. Much like what happened after 7.5. The focus was strictly on reducing costs to meet a certain goal. The backlash from customers made DL reconsider their strategy and made them focus on the customer and revenue target, not on a cost target. An optomists view rather than a pessimists.

We'll see what transpires after labor rates are lowered amongst the pilot group and the cost associated with operating specific equipment types. Hopefully DL will add capacity back in DFW and other hubs. The market for used 737's is extremely favorable.


User currently offlineDrewwright From United States of America, joined May 2001, 621 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3855 times:

Exusair, I agree that Delta may be cutting to deep. We are supposed to compete against 737's and MD-80's with our ERJ's on the DFW-MSY run. I don't think that will cut it for the average business traveler. On the other hand. Delta is competing against both American and Southwest in many markets. True it is easy to fill a 76 out of Dallas, but they are being filled by passengers who are for the most part paying very cheap fares (ala WN). The seat mile costs are too high at Delta to break even. That is why they are using RJ's. Maybe when Delta gets their costs down some, they can compete mainline to mainline once again.

DRW


User currently offlineAtcboy73 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3813 times:

I know times are changing and isn't it interesting to see things happen that you never thought would happen.

But lets not forget that Delta could close the DFW hub if it wanted to or if it had to. I think we should be happy its still there and if/when (did I say if, eeeeekk) the economy improves I bet we see some mainline expansion. This RJ thing could be just the thing they need to build mainline back again. With a strong RJ base at DFW there is no reason I see why they couldn't go at least 4 a day to almost all of their cities they now serve with mainline equipment. And the RJ also makes opposite direction services possible to places like LGA and LAX by mainline. If you don't understand what I mean just ask.

Has anyone ever thought the next step down the road for Delta is to build another satelight like the one they have? It could be used for more RJs  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6733 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3810 times:

It's absolutely disgusting what Delta has done to DFW. DFW ran heavy loads before the downsizing of the oepration. Most markets could have used larger a/c and there are several markets that warrented much more than an RJ.

Not true. Of DL's four domestic hubs, DFW has routinely had the worst load factors...not surprisingly ATL had the best.

To be fair, the loads at DFW weren't terrible, but the bigger problem was yields. In order to fill up the larger mainline planes, DL had to resort to extreme discounting.

On top of that, using mainline DL wasn't able to offer enough frequencies to be competitive. Three mainline flights from DFW-MSY isn't very attractive to business travelers either especially compared to AA and WN. So DL was forced to make a decision, trim capacity/increase frequencies with RJ's or abandon the DFW hub altogether?

Hopefully, if DL can get its costs more in line with the rest of the industry, they will be able to bring back some mainline. This might be especially true, when/if DL purchases a new 90-100 seat aircraft. However, the days of seeing 763's at DFW are over.



25 Ord : The previous comments by FlyPNS1 are correct. Delta has had trouble competing at DFW against American since they started the buildup after Braniff wen
26 Atcboy73 : We have some very knowledgeable people here! I need to download the latest timetable, and plan to do so today or tomorrow. Some of those mainline numb
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