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No More Mrtc On AA 757/A300  
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6603 posts, RR: 24
Posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5161 times:

This fall and winter AA will reconfigure the 757 and A300 back into standard seating configuration (no MRTC), in order to make AA more competitive in high-volume low yield markets.

Here's the quote: American will also be reintroducing standard seating to 23 percent of its fleet so that it can offer competitive fares across more seats in leisure and vacation markets. The new pitch will ultimately be found on all of the carrier's 140 Boeing 757 and 34 Airbus A300 aircraft.

"We are still retaining our popular More Room Throughout Coach product on more than 75 percent of our fleet, which translates into approximately 80 percent of our daily departures," Arpey said. "I also want to be clear that we are not creating an airline-within-an-airline because we don't believe a successful formula for that concept yet exists. We are simply returning to standard seating in those markets where customers tell us price -- and seat availability at low prices -- is predominantly how they choose a carrier."


http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030521/daw018_1.html



39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5100 times:

Great. 757s are about all I fly with AA. And I choose them SPECIFICALLY for the MRTC.


Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7115 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5036 times:

Only doing this in part of the fleet will cause confusion amongst the travelling public as to which aircraft they are on, etc... I can see AA eventually eliminating MRTC.


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineAA61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5016 times:

Damn, I am taking an AA 757 to SJO this year, it should be splendid, 4.5 hrs in a 757. My knee's hit the seat already in MRTC.


Go big or go home
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5002 times:

Only doing this in part of the fleet will cause confusion amongst the travelling public as to which aircraft they are on, etc... I can see AA eventually eliminating MRTC.
************

I agree, releases like this are vague, and cover you in that no one will even know what flight has them and what doesnt. For a customers like yourself who travels AA specifically for this, it will be tough. Are they converting the entire 757 / A300 fleet, or just some of them ?


User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4982 times:

the entire fleet... including the TW 757s...

-n


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7115 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4957 times:

There have been many discussions here before about MRTC, and the arguement always came back to "will people pay more for extra legroom?"
and "do the majority of customers know about MRTC?" the answer was no, and no...

Half eliminating the product will mean those who may have paid more now not doing so, as the vast majority dont know their 737s from an 757.... What about routes that are mixed service?





The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9623 posts, RR: 68
Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4948 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

if you need more room, upgrade.

User currently offlineCactusA319 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2918 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4853 times:


Of course they have to cut out MRTC....how else can they make money off the "I flew American for $89" ad campaign they have going right now?

It's only a matter of time before they put the seats back into the aircraft.




User currently offlineSWALUVFA From United States of America, joined May 2002, 277 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4806 times:

Shouldn't they do it to the MD-80s instead of the 757?

Won't this cost them a lot of money in maintinence?

Seems like a poor decision


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4769 times:

This was as inevitable as the seasons.... MRTC was a failure from the start.

IMO, it's only a matter of time before MRTC remains only for the international fleet.


User currently offlineBoeingfan From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4643 times:

The 757 and A300's are first, the other fleet equipment will be next. It is a phased approach. You get what you pay for. No one is willing to spend the extra $50 ea. way for the extra inch.

Adding 12 seats to 757, and 16 to A300's. (Exit rows will still have MRTC, though limited/no recline at first exit row.)

This will make the premium product even more premium, and hopefully push more revenue to the front cabin, as people begin to pay for it or not? Next, possible removal of additional "F" or "J" seating for more "less room" seating. Premium seating "P" class will only be available on LHR/AA), Japan">NRT routes, as the two class service takes over on trans atlantic route 763's.

With out product differentiation, why not fly Southwest or AirTran? They pack'em in even closer then the new "less room" seating.

Price, price, price, is the market driver today.

No one is complaining though, fewer flight attendants too. But no more food in "Y." (Unless over 4 hours.)

This is good news to stock holders AMR shares were up today, when most others were down. The market likes the idea, the people will buy it, happy days are on there way. Plus advance bookings are up, AA will make the turn around, and be profitable soon!

Good on Arpey, he knows what will sell in the realistic market place where real estate is money. You can increase ASM's with out purchasing new equipment or hiring additional staff. DL still pack more pax into their planes.

Next, M80's, 767's, 738's. The 777 may still continue to offer the premium MRTC product in the forward "Y" cabin?

Great new, great day, about time!! It is about time. The market is gone for the former MRTC product, too bad. But, action to reality of the market place is great news.

(Provides more opportunity to hop on as a non rev too!) 2cents Bf


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16857 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4635 times:

The public loved it, the news covered it, and AA boasted about MRTC.

Problem was for it to work either the other airlines would have had to follow suit to keep FF's from defecting to AA, or..

Or AA passengers would have had to pay more for the MRTC,

Neither happened.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030521/airlines_american_4.html



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineClipper471 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4577 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

AAARRRRRRGHHHHHH! You know the rest of the fleet isn't far behind.

User currently offlineLowfareair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4521 times:

>>With out product differentiation, why not fly Southwest or AirTran? They pack'em in even closer then the new "less room" seating.<<

WN has 33" pitch. AirTran matches AA in coach but has 40-42" pitch in biz compared to 38" in domestic F.


User currently offlineAA61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4499 times:

Fly American Airlines with their "Less room throughout coach" LRTC


Go big or go home
User currently offlineFlyboy36y From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3039 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4458 times:

Well,

I think that I have no more reason to be exclusive to AA. I think I'll be casjing in my miles soon...


User currently offlineAIR757200 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1579 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4443 times:


Less room? AA is simply adding back the seats they took out for MRTC, they are going back to the standard before the program. Less room than the premium layout yes, but not less than before.


User currently offlineAA61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4417 times:

Well less for me, I have grown since the last time I flew a non MRTC plane


Go big or go home
User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4413 times:

Could this be construed as a victory for UA's Economy plus layout? UA always incisted that MRTC took too much capacity from aircraft. Econ Plus was a balance between rewarding the premium passengers and having the available seats to sell at a discount.

User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7115 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (11 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 4333 times:

No, its a victory for DL and CO, who decided not to follow UA and AA down this stupid path.

Lowest permissable fares are calculated on variable costs of the service divided by number of seats. More seats = lower fares. Ryanair and Easyjet with their 29'' seat pitch are the global leaders in high density low fares, making southwest look like a premium product.

I wonder if Song will enter the AA dominated caribbean market from JFK with an all economy product - which would be perfect for the low yielding markets?



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineOrd From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (11 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4253 times:

The press release makes it very clear that only the 757s and A300s will add seats. You mention the other aircraft adding seats in a phased approach. Do you know something the rest of us don't?

User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (11 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4248 times:

I'd rather see even tighter Y pitch but additional seats up front for upgrade!

But that'll never happen  Sad

Steve


User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (11 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4240 times:

With out product differentiation, why not fly Southwest or AirTran? They pack'em in even closer then the new "less room" seating.

From the Southwest web site:

We would like to dispel the myth that our airline is, perhaps, cramming more seats into our airplanes. Southwest is actually working hard to provide you with more room in each "edition" of the 737 that we have ordered. You see, even though most of our flights are short, your comfort is still of the utmost importance to us. That is why, when we designed our aircraft interiors, we worked hard at maintaining a comfortable distance or pitch7 between your seat and the seat in front of you. The chart below shows the number of seats in each Boeing 737 model we fly as compared to the number of seats that airplane would hold if we were less concerned with your comfort. It will also give you an idea of what you can expect in terms of leg room.8

Model - Maximum Capacity- Southwest Capacity - Average Pitch

737-700* 149 137 33.25


737-500 132 122 32.57


737-300 149 137 32.36


737-200 132 122 32


*The 737-700 is the newest addition to our fleet, and we have lots more on the way. This beautiful new airplane not only flies quieter, farther, and more fuel efficiently, it is roomier. Our –700 seats are pitched at 33-34 inches (and even farther apart at exit rows); but, when we designed its beautiful new interior, we removed the cabin dividers and selected an innovative new seat design. So, when you fly on one of our newer planes, you will actually feel like your seat is pitched at 35 or more inches—the same amount of space in the first- and business-class sections on some airlines! Our –700s have more overhead bin space, too!




User currently offlineAIR757200 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1579 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (11 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4222 times:

Ord,

It's all speculation in regards to the entire fleet on this site. As you stated, the press release indicates only the B757/A300 fleet right now.

This may have been mentioned already above;

Schedule:

A300: 34 aircraft beginning this fall, to be completed by "winter holiday" in December.

B757: 140 aircraft will be finished in mid-February 2004.

The work will be done at Tulsa. This equals to 23% of the fleet.

*****Quote from Aprey: "I also want to be clear that we are not creating an airline-within-an-airline because we don’t believe a successful formula for that concept yet exists. We are simply returning to standard seating in those markets where customers tell us price – and seat availability at low prices – is predominantly how they choose a carrier."


Soure: AMR Corp.


25 Svenvdm : I really enjoyed the 'More Room' program but if the majority of the traveling public doesn't base their purchase decision on it then there's no need t
26 Blink182 : What seems to be forgotten is that these are only flights to high yield tourist destinations in the carribean, bahamas etc and it just so happens that
27 Ual777contrail : BLINK, You bring up a good point, UAL on their 2 class 777's don't have the econ plus. When you serve Hawaii and markets of low yield then you need mo
28 AA61hvy : But AA uses the 757 trans con. to Canada and ANC and thats rough as hell for the people in coach.
29 Trvlr : Perhaps AA will replace 757s with 737-800s in the future on transcon routes. Aaron G.
30 Ba319-131 : It was only a matter of time before MRTC vanished.With economy seat's being removed it increases ASM costs,so in reality you want to increase ticket p
31 Post contains images EA CO AS : I have grown since the last time I flew a non MRTC plane Did your voice finally change, too? Seriously, though...STT757 said it best. AA had a great i
32 JC5280 : This is great news for United! I know our stock is up a bit for this reason. Thanks AA!
33 N951U : Goingboeing: Southwest should also state: "We only have 149 seats on our -300/-700 aircraft because we don't believe it's worth it to pay a fourth fli
34 Contrails : This was inevitable. I've been waiting since 9/12/01 for the announcement. I'm surprised it's taken so long. I expect more of this in the coming month
35 N951U : After all, it's money that's most important, not customer comfort. The customers have said money is more important to them (airfares) rather than com
36 Scottb : N951U: Read more carefully, Southwest DOES NOT put 149 (the maximum) seats in its -700's, it puts 137; i.e. two fewer rows.
37 N777UA : United does have E+ on the Hawaii 777s. I flew a 777 LAX-HNL & back last summer, was in E+ both ways.
38 BR715-A1-30 : Well, Last time I flew AA, It was on a Super 80, and Super 90 (MD-90) I didn't notice anything on the Super 80, but that is because I have skinny legs
39 Clipper471 : I always went with AA since MRTC. It was great. Can't say I would try to book AA now, though, if it means their pitch is the same as others. Will have
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