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Outer Markers At YYZ - Change Of Names?  
User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4858 times:

Hi guys.

I have a question about Toronto Intl Airport (YYZ).

Have the names of the outer markers for runway's 05 and 06L been changed?

Runway 05 at YYZ used to have an outer marker called "TANGO". Over the past several days (around 5), I keep hearing pilot's receive clearance to intercept rwy 05's ILS and to maintain 170 knots untill reaching "MEADOVALE" for example. Is Meadovale the new name for rwy 05's outer marker?

Also, rwy 06L used to have an outer marker named "JULIET". Now I hear pilots being intructed to contact the tower once they cross "BRITANIA" while they're on the ILS glideslope for 06L. Is Britania the new name for rwy 06L's outer marker? (Note: The road that leads to the main control tower and ATC facilities at YYZ is called Britania. It's almost under 06L's approach path).

If they have infact changed the outer marker's names for rwy's 05 and 06L, does anyone know the reason why? Could it be because the phonetic alphabet uses the same names and there's been some confusion during ATC comminications? If this is the reason, will they be changing other outer markers names too?

At YYZ, rwy 23's outer marker is XRAY, rwy 15L's is ROMEO and rwy 33R's is LIMA.

I'm very curious about this.

Thanks for any info.

Chris  Smile


"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
7 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4829 times:

Hi again.

OK, perhaps nobody knows the answer to this question at the moment.

I tried to find out on my own by checking out this website .......

http://www.torontocontroltower.ca

(where you click on Tower Procedures at the top of the page), however, all the approach plates are dated November 28, 2002.  Sad

Are there any other websites out there I could use for this outer marker names question?

Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineJetCaptain From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 236 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4809 times:

Chris,

Yes they changed the names of the outer markers at YYZ.

Tango is now Meadowvale (ZLP)
Juliet is now Britannia (ZLB)
Romeo is now Woodhill (ZTO)
Xray is now Rexdale (ZDH)
Lima is now Queensway (ZYZ)

I suspect that they did this to avoid confusion with other similarily named and identified waypoints in aircraft flight management system (FMS) databases. Although I can't find an official reference to confirm that, it would make sense. The American Airlines B757 accident in Colombia comes to mind here.

You can access NOTAMS at this site .....

https://www.notams.jcs.mil/

Use "CYYZ" and "CZYZ"

JC



User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4793 times:

I had heard that they changed them to avoid some confusion with some of the waypoints as well as to avoid certain phrases such as "Air Canada XXX is inside Juliet"


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4777 times:

Hi guys.

>> JetCaptain, Thanks again for providing me with an excellent link. Big grin

Thank You for confirming for me that some of the runway's outer markers have indeed had their names changed. I wasn't just hearing things!  Nuts

The Airport Authority has obviously chosen to re-name only the markers with phonetic titles, and I believe the reason most likely involves the one you guys mentioned ...... to avoid any confusion about waypoints in an airliner's FMS computer's database.

The new names are interesting too, if you're on final approach to runway 33R (it's outer marker is now Queensway), you will fly over the Queensway highway just north of the lakeshore. If you're on approach to runway 23 (it's outer marker is now Rexdale), you will fly over an area of Toronto that's called Rexdale with it's Rexdale Blvd.

>> Was the AA B757 accident the one where the airliner crashed into a mountain because the pilots where tuned to the wrong waypoint ..... thus they where off course?

>> Slawko, Air Canada XXX is inside Juliet Big grin hehehe

Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineC172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4757 times:

It's not just Toronto's that have changed. Calgary's markers have new names as well.

Rwy 34 is now Blackfoot, and 16 is Sarcee, although 28 still remains that Calgary beacon.

I believe this is Nav Canada that has done this, or is it transport?


User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4708 times:

Hello C172Akula.

That's interesting to know. Perhaps NAV Canada or Transport Canada is responsible and will be doing this to all of Canada's International / Large airports adventually.

Regarding Calgary Intl Airport ........ Did the outer markers for rwy's 34 & 16 used to be named after a letter in the phonetic alphabet, such as Whiskey, Foxtrot, Tango, etc?

Also, is the marker for rwy 34 located in an area of Calgary that's called Blackfoot, or near a street with that name? Is Sarcee an area or street in Calgary where rwy 16's marker is located?

The reason I'm asking you this is because that's what's been done with the newly named outer markers at Toronto's YYZBig grin They've been named after the area they're located in or a street that's nearby.


Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineRadarbeam From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4697 times:

Montreal - St Hubert also had their outer marker change from Hotel to Haut-Bois (ZHU)

Dorval also changed
Lima is now Jarry
Uniform is now Valois
Mike is now Rockland

And for Mirabel
Juliet is now Joly
Wiskey is now Hermas
India is now Janvier
X-ray is now Monic


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