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Bwia Planes Seized At MIA  
User currently offlineBWIA 772 From Barbados, joined May 2002, 2202 posts, RR: 2
Posted (13 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 3899 times:

Just watch the TV6 news in Trinidad and was wondering the registration of the 2 planes that the ILFC seized leased by BWIA.

The Trinidad government gave the airline US$ 5 million to secure to the aircraft only to find out that another 737 has been seized the fleet of 737 is now down to 5 of the 7 737s the airline has. The seizure of the 2nd plane has angered the PM of Trinidad who has been very involved in the BWIA saga in recent times.

It should be noted that for the conditions of the last bail out calls for a reveiw of the iarlines management.

Eagles Soar!
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3297 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (13 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

Yes, I heard about the first seizure on Wednesday but did not know that a second plane was held. It would appear that when they flew a second plane to MIA to pick up the pax stranded by the first seizure that the repeat episode occurred.

6 of the 7 738s are leased from ILFC, 1 from GECAS. ILFC has been left unpaid for several months during this severe cash flow crisis at BW. One wonders what has happened to the US$5m paid to BW to release the first plane. It appears as though the mismanagement is really out of hand at BW, the losses are just getting worse. The management team need to go, they are not helping anything and have not helped for a long time. It is just whether anybody has the guts (and/or balls) to fire the lot.


Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineCaptaink From Grenada, joined May 2001, 5119 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (13 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3683 times:

I took of from MIA on Wednesday about 2pm and commented how beautiful those two 737 looked at the end of Concourse F. Hmm didnt know the drama behind them. This is sad.. I could imagine how upset the passengers are. I wonder how long BWIA would last.. I really am begining to wonder.

There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineBWIA 772 From Barbados, joined May 2002, 2202 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (13 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3464 times:

Yes the TT government seems to be at the end of their patience with BWIA. Apparently the government claims that they have found out that of the US$5 million only 3.5 million would be used for the realse of the aircrafts and 1.5 for severance owed to workerd dismissed earlier this year.

This evening on the TV6 news it has been reported that the airline's CEO has stated that the information relayed about the spending of the of the US$ 5 million to the PM came from the Trade Minister who was mis informed and is using the airline for political gain. The Trade Minister has said that the information was what he got from the airline's CEO. SO it is one big mess.

It has also been reported that the ILFC wants US$ 8 million for aircraft maintenance reserve. One can only wonder if this is the beginning of the water shed at BWIA will likely lead to management change or the demise of the airline.

Eagles Soar!
User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (13 years 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3418 times:

Good friend of mine used to operate a corporate JetStar thru POS a lot, and mentioned that during re-fueling, they had to watch everything very closly...otherwise bits and pieces would 'grow legs and walk away'...

Suspect not much has changed in the meantime.

User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3389 times:

Maybe its time to face reallity and realize that BWIA is TOOOOO big, and maybe has to cut capacity a LOT, does the small country of TT need that big an airline?.

User currently offlineBWIA330 From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 922 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (13 years 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3376 times:


the problem is BWIA has really poor management and is trying to expand to fast for a market that is not requiring it at this time. The market is very slow but yet BWIA wants to start new destinations and aquire yet another A340 and 737. The A340 is very costly for them but cheaper than the L-1011. It would be much wiser if they get 767's for fleet commonality. The demand is not present in the Caribbean region for all these aircrafts that BWIA has.



User currently offlineBWIA 772 From Barbados, joined May 2002, 2202 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (13 years 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3291 times:


As BWIA 330 just stated the airline is poorly managed. To be put in perspective the management of acute lack there of shoulder the blame for the airline at bankrupcty's doors.

The acquisition of the 340 was the biggest mistake that the airline has made. I dont think that the aircraft has proven to be that cheap in operations!

I think the fleet should be reduced between 4 - 5 737s and seeing that the airline has found new owners for their L1011s they should look at gettin 330s which have alot of commonality with the 340 or getting some L1011s from DELTA which they can pick up at half mill a peace for the 500 series.

Aslo BWIA has alot of business in Barbados and would be a major blow to the island if the airline should go down.

Eagles Soar!
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3252 times:

yes, i do see that, but dont you think that they would be better of surrendering the long haul service completly to British Airways and adopting a model like the panamanian airline copa airlines, with is probably the most profitable airline in latin america, they could do the same in the carribean. Copa only has 737´s, but is the main carrier in central america, and its flights to south america are almost always 100% full, usually with connection traffic. if you see CNN you should have probably seen the adds.they could be in a finnancial possition to adquiere some 767 or A330s to go longhaul to Europe, but they preffer to stick with the 737 and let continental do the long haul work, i think this is the best model for BWIA, maybe sell a 49% stake to BA, and associate with them, becouse they will never be abel to beat the longhaul service of BA, but then again this is only my opinion.

User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3297 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (13 years 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3190 times:

BWIA associate with BA - ironic you thought about that Luisca because BW initially started off as a BOAC affiliate and had several rough periods when under them, most notably in the late 50s. BOAC had loaned BW several Viscounts to operate some Caribbean-North American services while awaiting the Britannias. When the Britannias arrived BW was forced off several routes (eg Kingston - Nassau - Bermuda - New York) and suffered steep losses which BOAC did not wish to carry ad infintum. In 1961 BOAC decided to shut BW down and the TT Government jumped in and bought 90% of it; the remaining 10% was held by BOAC until 1967 when the Government took full ownership. Since that time BW has been under Government finance and influence (the new routes to Havana, Santo Domingo and San Jose are all under Government request!) for better or for worse. Virgin seems a more logical partner for BW given that history with BOAC.

As for the fleet, currently there are 7 737-800s and 1 A340-300. With all the variety of recent times gone (Dash 8 Q300, MD83, L-1011) there is engine commonality which is a major plus. BW cannot presently use any long-haul twins (eg 767-300, A330) because TT is presently languishing under ICAO Category 2 status and would not be certificated to provide ETOPS services. Only wet-leases (and those are expensive) could do that - in any case BW has been doing lots of wet-leases of late, albeit with many an uproar about the state of the planes used and comments reaching as far as The Times. A cutback in the fleet is likely to be counterproductive because BW would simply be too small to generate enough revenue. A second A340 is needed though to stabilize the airline's image and end these chaotic leases.

Above all, BW has had to cut staff (it has classically been overstaffed) and now it really needs better management. The current team are simply not functioning in the way that is required.


Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineBWIA 772 From Barbados, joined May 2002, 2202 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (13 years 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3119 times:


Adding to Trintocan's post why should the airline give up the route that contributes 25% of the airline's annual revenue. The UK route is the prestigous route of the airline.

Interms of the bad management BWIA current management seems to be the worst, a cancer that has silently spread at a rapid rate and has only be discovered in recent times. The airline's CEO is reported to get US$30 000 a month which in TT is 180 000 per month. The same CEO owns the firm that supplied the airline with all of its management. The CEO is also a share holder in the catering company for the airline's meals.

As I stated before the acquisition of the 340 was the worst decision the airline took in the last 18 months. Anyway hopefully by next week the aviation laws needed to regain FAA Cat 1 status should begin it was top this week by childish behaviour by the esteemed members of the legislative branch of the TT government. Yes in the pass we thought things were bad for BWIA especially since October of last year but I guess the final show down may begin in just while. What might save BWIA is the fact that the PM is committed to forming a regional carrier for the eastern caribbean from the semi carcasses of BWIA and LIAT.

Eagles Soar!
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3049 times:

It may contribute to 25% of the annual revenue, but is it profitable? probably not. they have a key position, they should exploit it. OK lets say that they dont leave the longhaul market, then they should make an effort to improve their image and make everybody that whants to fly in the carribean whant to take BWIA, like copa has made, they can not prettend to have such a large capacity and depend solely on O&D Traffic. they have to make themeselves a must in the carribean. I lived in the cayman islands a couple of years. Their my family had some freinds from T&T, they told us they have a really poor country, so i dont think that internal traffic is gonna help this airline survive. i just think it is better to have a small airline than no airline at all.

User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3297 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (13 years 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2932 times:

An error to my earlier post - BW was fully nationalized in 1964, not 1967. As for taking the A340 there are many pros and cons about that but the airline really had no choice apart from keeping the TriStars in service - and that was becoming increasingly expensive along with which it was hurting BW's image (old planes!). AS for dropping UK BW would never do that, if they stopped serving LHR they would likely be shut out of there for a very long time. Thos grandfather rights are the crown jewels in BW's portfolio.


Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineBWIA 772 From Barbados, joined May 2002, 2202 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (13 years 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2883 times:

Trintocan, although BWIA image was hurt by these old planes the decision to get the 340 was still a bad one. I say because I found that the new scheme did wonders for the aicraft outwards apperance. However it was the half bake con man job that was done to the interior that really hurt the airlinells image. The interior of the last L1011 showed all the 20++ years that it was in service. One should also note that when the new scheme was inrtoduce on the L1011, it was said that the L1011 was 100% refurbished and it would be done with the rest of the L1011 fleet. This did not happen, TGJ and TGN the new scheme and seat covers THA got the paint scheme and seat covers for the first class and the first section of economy seats after the first class.


BWIA did not make the fullest use of the new theme and the marketing of done by the airline leaves much to be desired.

Eagles Soar!
User currently offlineAWspicious From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (13 years 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2835 times:

Seems to me like a classic case of greed. (Too many cooks spoil the broth). By the time everyone skims their share, there isn't enough left to benefit the airline.
Luisca; Your family's friends were wrong to state Trinidad & Tobago is a poor country. The country has a wealth of natural resources. However, the island nation has (for a very long time) been inflicted by the same sickness that has plagued BWIA - Greed. Too many bright people skimming money from the system (and out of the country) for their own personal gain. There are no legitimate reasons for T&T or BWIA to be in such financial chaos. I don't recall hearing about any of Air Jamaica's aircraft being seized or impounded, so, why should BWIA have to suffer such an indignity? Pathetic, I say.


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