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Last Week For Delta In ROC :(  
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7383 posts, RR: 8
Posted (10 years 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 4618 times:

Attn ROC spotters (are there any) Saturday will be the last day for Delta mainline in ROC. June 1st will see Comair CRJ 200/700 's to ATL. What a joke - we lost mainline CO & A^A went Eagle in Feb . No more MD80's here,either. We're probably the only airport that doesn't have NG737's either.
Hopefully the weather will cooperate and I can get a picture of it.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4467 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 7 hours ago) and read 4599 times:

How fitting that June is the month in which Delta ceases mainline service at ROC. June, of 2001 I think it was, was the month in which Delta abruptly canceled service at ROC for two weeks. They'd had a year's warning about runway work that required smaller a/c for two weeks; somehow all the other airlines were able to comply. But with a week's notice, Delta abruptly canceled TWO WEEKS' WORTH of nearly full 722's and dumped the pax onto other airlines. "Delta: We have Contempt for Medium-Size Markets, and it Shows." Jerks.

Yes, I'm bitching about that again, and I will until Uncle Leo apologizes to the Rochester/ Monroe County community in person and submits to having Genesee Beer poured over his head in stocks in St. Mary's Square.

Hope you can get a picture, Scott. I see that a new photographer just got a picture of an MD-88 in Deltaflot colors landing on Rwy 4.

Jim


User currently offlineN951U From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 7 hours ago) and read 4571 times:

I guess ROC hasn't proven it can support mainline service. At least you are keeping Delta service.... and I see that one extra daily frequency to ATL is being added with the MD-80 drop.

I wish one day this site would see an attitude change from "XYZ Airlines sucks because they don't fly pretty planes to my airport anymore" and realize the economic implications of flying in a certain aircraft type just so you can photograph it.

Regarding June 2001... perhaps Delta was unable to make it work with smaller aircraft due to availability, scheduling, etc? They may have seen it as more economic to put people on other carriers.


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7383 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 4559 times:

Jeese,951U I was just saying I wanted to get a picture . Yes,ROC is a joke (city is too in some ways) .


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineVincent32 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 4543 times:

Guys, Guys...
Yeah its sad that all the majors are pulling out of ROC to put in regionals. And come on, the city is not that much of a joke...I mean maybe the inner loop will make you want to pull your hair out anytime from 4-6pm... Smile/happy/getting dizzy

But, granted, it is a shame to see DL mainline leaving. I also live in ALB part-time and fortunately we still have mainline on everything but AA. Hopefully we'll see some increased service in ROC otherwise B6 and FL are going to reign supreme. Smile/happy/getting dizzy Time will tell.


User currently offlineAmericanmd80 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 491 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 4507 times:

Picked my mom up at ROC on 5/21
she was on the 10:10 flight from ATL on an MD-80, new colors.
Sad that this is one of the last times we'll see Delta Mainline in ROC.


Joe
*americanmd80*



do what you like . like what you do . life is good
User currently offlineTekelberry From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1459 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 4485 times:

DL upgraded some of their MKE routes from MD80s to 738s and some DL Connection flights to 733s so I think they do care about some medium-size markets.

User currently offlineUpsmd11 From United States of America, joined May 2003, 803 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 4 hours ago) and read 4460 times:
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It is a very nice thing to have mainline service in your city, also nice to get upgraded aircraft as well. When DL stopped flying the 727 here in SDF I was hoping for a 738 or 757 but it hasn't happened. The load factors dictate which aircraft the airlines fly into your area. There are similar, if not smaller, cities that get 757 DL service, such as BHM, BNA and SAV. But these cities must all have something (tourism, fewer airlines) that dictate the loads.

I was very upset when US pulled all mainline service here and now only have CRJ/ERJ/D38/DH8 service. You would think that they could keep a few of the flights mainline! I would prefer to have the frequencies though.

I am worried about AA pulling out of the STL hub though. With the addition of AA service here we now get great connections out west. DFW and ORD are both viable options, but ORD was just instituted and sometimes the connections out of DFW are not as quick as you would like them to be.

WN is another factor in the decisions here. Their presence has helped lower other fares but also cut capacity for the other carriers as well.

John


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7383 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 4 hours ago) and read 4457 times:

And just last month we got a 757 (Damn I missed it!!) But just because its full doesn't mean its making $$ . Just gonna miss the loud MD88 already miss the 727.......


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineAfitch7881 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 814 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 3 hours ago) and read 4426 times:

"We have Contempt for Medium-Size Markets, and it Shows"


Delta certainly doesnt dislike BDL, another medium sized market which sees on a regular basis 2-4 daily 767 departures on top of song coming!


Sorry to rub it in,

Eric


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4467 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months ago) and read 4380 times:

Regarding June 2001... perhaps Delta was unable to make it work with smaller aircraft due to availability, scheduling, etc? They may have seen it as more economic to put people on other carriers.

Again, Delta had a year's notice, and June is high travel season...many people could not be accomodated on other flights the same days. There's no excuse for what Delta did, it represents plain arrogance and contempt. Regarding Hartford, it has a much bigger catchment area than Rochester, and Delta has a history there going back to the '50s maybe earlier. I doubt they would pull such a maneuver on Hartford.

I'm not talking about "flying pretty planes to my home town" or other such uneconomic concerns. I'm talking about competing, which Delta clearly doesn't want to do. At least it means that AirTran has established itself in Rochester and Delta clearly thinks it isn't worthwhile to turn predatory. If AirTran and JetBlue "reign supreme" that's a good thing, and all six Cartel-network carriers and/ or their affiliates are still in town to provide more detailed network coverage. But it's interesting that they don't try...probably because they treated us so badly in the 1990's that local businesses remember, and are making heavy use of B6 and FL's excellent products.

Jim


User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4482 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4308 times:

One thing about Delta...as Jim has pointed out...medium sized markets are the red headed step children of the system. You either are their #1 priority or just something they can dispose off when they choose.

It is sad for any city to lose mainline service...we lost mainline DL in 98 here in TOL and things haven't changed much since. Load factors are still high...around 80% to ATL (2 CR7 1 CRJ) and around 70% to CVG (3 CRJ 6 FRJ). All in all we are up in frequencies by two (added to CVG market)...but down around 170 seats still since the pull out. If we can get a couple more to ATL and the MCO service, we'll be all set.

ROC probably has a strong chance of seeing mainline DL return once they get their house in order. However, they are going to have to offer more services and fair fares in order to win the people over.



Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineN951U From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4227 times:

Again, Delta had a year's notice, and June is high travel season...many people could not be accomodated on other flights the same days. There's no excuse for what Delta did, it represents plain arrogance and contempt.

You can keep spouting that as long as you want, it won't make it right.

I'm talking about competing, which Delta clearly doesn't want to do. At least it means that AirTran has established itself in Rochester and Delta clearly thinks it isn't worthwhile to turn predatory.

Perhaps the market has grown as much as it will and AirTran took a permanent sector of Delta's passengers, or that travel just doesn't exist anymore. No need for Delta to keep the capacity when it isn't necessary. At least Delta added one daily flight to ROC, providing more travel options.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4224 times:

I myself believe a whole lot of markets suffer from over capacity, the market just might not be there anymore. Although most airlines are guilty of over capacity, it seems like Delta in this case is saying no to ROC. In this day and age it might not be possible to allocate the $$$'s to carry losing routes.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4467 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4192 times:

You can keep spouting that as long as you want, it won't make it right.

You can keep spouting *that* as long as you want, that doesn't make it right. Air travel is a customer service business; it is extremely unprofessional to just pull your service on short notice. Air travel, like it or not, also has a public-good quality to it, and just pulling a big chunk of seat capacity on short notice because your lazy managers didn't make small adjustments that could have preserved it, is abusive of the community involved. Again, *you* can keep spouting that Delta didn't do anything wrong, but that doesn't make what you're saying right. An agree-to-disagree situation, I guess.

In any event, at least the the new DL arrangement will give the market greater frequencies, which is worth something too.

Jim


User currently offlineN951U From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4104 times:

It's one of those unexplainable situations....
If AirTran dropped ROC for two weeks, it'd be just fine because AirTran would simply have been a.) abused by other airlines, b.) abused by the airport authority, c.) redeploying resources to better serve customers. All in a positive light of course....

It's kind of like Southwest's pilots flying around naked. The company simply said "we're handling it internally" and the media left it alone. If a pilot at American flew in a cockpit in his undershirt, the media and everybody would act like it's the armageddon.


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7383 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4088 times:

What other cities are losing mainline June 1st ? BUF or SYR ?


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineBUFJets From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4063 times:

BUF is also losing Delta Mainline June 1st.

User currently offlineCVG777 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1251 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4053 times:

BUF is also losing service then too, but I also believe that frequency on the CRJ's and CR7's will increase to seven or eight daily flights. Still sad to see Delta mainline leave though.

Could these cuts in mainline service be because of Delta allocating 757s to Song and the need for the larger aircraft elsewhere? That is the first thing that I thought when I learned about these mainline cuts a couple of months ago.

CVG777


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7383 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4039 times:

I got a few descent MD88 pics Sunday & Monday . New colors & mid . I even saw a Comair CRJ in old Widget colors - something neat to see  Big grin I also see that USAir still has 737's - I thought they were all parked . I wonder,do Delta employees retained by Comair or do they have to re-apply ?


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4467 posts, RR: 34
Reply 20, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4009 times:

CVG--I don't think Song is a factor; the 757's are being switched for Delta Express 732's which are being moved back into regular Delta service. Unless, possibly, there's a big net seat increase over to Song. Does anyone know how much of a net seat capacity increase over DLX Song represents?

SYR and ALB are retaining mainline service for now; they don't have nasty AirTran messing up yields to Atlanta.

We Upstate New Yorkers should also not be too shocked if, and more likely when, United switches our ORD flights to all Air Wisky and ACA. I don't understand that one--UA and AA do not have LCC's messing up their yields from UNY to ORD. But AA switched UNY to all RJ's, and UA's in worse financial shape than they are.

Meanwhile, Northwest with its somewhat lower CASM began nonstop mainline service on ROC-MSP this past winter. I don't think that was accidental; the demand for westbound service is there, and NW probably can make money more easily on it than AA. Expect SYR-MSP before too long too, I think.

Jim


User currently offlineN951U From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3984 times:

But AA switched UNY to all RJ's, and UA's in worse financial shape than they are.

Probably understandable.... American put in lower cost RJ's while United continues to lose more money with larger mainline planes at higher cost.


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7383 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3930 times:

Here's good one- our local newspaper ran a blurb about Delta mainline being replaced by CRJ's . They stated that Delta currently flies 2 149seat 727's to ATL to be replaced by RJ's of Comair & ASA . In truth,we have 2 MD88 and they will be replaced by Comair only . Figures,if it aint the Buffalo Bills,Kodak or Xerox , the paper screws it up!


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4467 posts, RR: 34
Reply 23, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3889 times:

Yeah, Scott, I saw that too, and just rolled my eyes. The headline on the web edition was "Delta Increases Frequencies to Atlanta," which could well have been written by the Delta marketing department. Good grief.

Jim


User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7383 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3885 times:

Yep,more frequencies,less capacity. Tomorrow is the last day! I imagine the 10pm arrival will leave as the first one out on Sunday even though the d/l timetable doesn't state that.
No more loud scheduled pax jets after that .
Jim,I got a nice pic of Kodak's Challenger ,as rw 4 was in use this afternoon ! Alas,no Sheriff harrasment in a long time!



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
25 MSYtristar : Down in New Orleans, we're talking big-time capacity reductions as of September, with around 5 767 and 757 flights switiching to MD-88's on the ATL ro
26 GD727 : It's too bad really. ROC is a nice airport and Rochester itself is a fairly big city. I personally would rather have a few daily MD88's then several R
27 United_Fan : The only 'mainstream' airlines to ROC are USAirways with their subsidiaries,NW supplemented by Mesaba and Pinacle,UA supplemented to ORD by ACA's CRJ
28 Americanmd80 : I was out last night around 1:30 with my friends, and we drove through the airport (one gilr had never been so we had to go through it) and I saw two
29 FlyPNS1 : It's sad to lose mainline, but the economics dictate where planes go. In terms of ROC/BUF, I believe those cities may see the return of mainline somet
30 DCA-ROCguy : DL's presence in ROC/BUF was largely a network strength issue (your hubs are only as strong as the number of spokes they are connected to), plus to sh
31 Zrb2 : Interesting to note that whenever I've mentioned the new Delta/Comair arrangement in BUF to my friends and family (non-aviation enthusiasts)...they ar
32 Post contains images United_Fan : Last night I drove thru the airport to see which plane would make the last departure,and there wasn't one. There was no 10pm arrival. I wonder if it
33 Post contains images United_Fan : Joe,I saw that USAir A321 last nite . Looked neat. I wonder if , like before it goes to CLT,then CUN ? I hate to say it,but I wouldn't be surprised t
34 Americanmd80 : yeah, it'd be cool to see some new stuff in ROC, but I guess when I move I will get a larger variety! Joe *americanmd80*
35 Flaps : Actually, I prefer most RJ's (exception being the 100 series CRJ's) to mainline service. Also, I dont consider the 738 to be an upgrade over the MD88.
36 DCA-ROCguy : Joe,I saw that USAir A321 last nite . Looked neat. I wonder if , like before it goes to CLT,then CUN ? I hate to say it,but I wouldn't be surprised to
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