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Emirates To Order 69 Widebodies:A380, A346 & B777  
User currently offlineTeahan From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 5293 posts, RR: 61
Posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 16108 times:

Article from this week’s Flight International:

- 23 A380-800 (hence increasing the total to 45)
- 10 A340-600HGW
- 26 B777-300ER.

***quote***

PAUL LEWIS / WASHINGTON DC

Carrier set to announce massive order at air show for mix of Airbus A380s, A340-600s and Boeing 777-300ERs

Emirates plans to announce a massive new order at the Paris air show in June for up to 69 additional long-range widebodies including Airbus A380-800s, high gross weight (HGW) A340-600s and Boeing 777-300ERs.

The purchases will form part of a plan designed to triple the size of the Dubai-based carrier over the next 10 years.

The announcement at the air show of a new Emirates order has been expected for several months, but the size and scope of the deal will surprise many. The new deal will comprise: 23 A380s, increasing its total order for the ultra-large aircraft to 45; 10 A340-600s, plus a similar number of options, marking a launch order for the HGW version; and 26 Boeing 777-300ERs. All will be used to provide incremental growth rather than replace existing capacity.

Emirates is already the single largest A380 customer, having increased its commitment from seven to 22 aircraft, including two freighters, in late 2001. With this latest deal the carrier will account for more than one third of the total order backlog for the 555-seat airliner. The decision to order both the 777-300ER and rival A340-600 is a surprise, but reflects the heavily discounted competing deals put on Emirates' table by Boeing and Airbus, as well leasing companies General Electric Capital Aviation Services and International Lease Finance, both of which are expected to share in the deal.

"We are working towards a 16 June announcement," Emirates confirms. "We placed a large order at the Dubai air show 2001 and it's likely that this order will be increased at Paris."

The airline had announced in 2001 a letter of intent for 25 more 777s, but at the time did not specify a version. It already operates nine standard 777-200s and 12 stretched -300 versions. Plans to phase out the former have been dropped.

The A340-600 HGW will have a maximum take-off weight of 376,000kg (828,200lb). Emirates already has six longer-range but smaller A340-500s on order to open nonstop routes from Dubai to Sydney and New York, but manufacturer delays have pushed back initial deliveries until September.

While the four-engined A340-600 and the 777-300ER twin come with only one choice of powerplant - the Rolls-Royce Trent 500 and General Electric GE90-115B respectively - the airline intends an engine competition for the A380s. The GE/Pratt & Whitney Engine Alliance GP7200 was selected last year to power Emirates' first batch of 22 aircraft.
***(unquote)***

Rather good news, to say the least.

Jeremiah


[Edited 2003-05-27 19:33:14]


Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
150 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 15990 times:

Soon there will be only two airlines left in the world: Emirates and SouthWest.

User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 15986 times:

It's amazing what you can accomplish when logic and finance do not constrain your imagination.

User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1857 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 15966 times:

Jaysit:

You are being optimistic.  Yeah sure How do you know if Emirates won't one day become Swissair of the Middle East?


User currently offlineBoieng747-400 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 15936 times:

Very good order for Airbus and Boeing. I continue to wonder where EK will make all of these huge planes fly to. 45 A388s that is quite a lot not to say the least! Its nice to see that the airline has helped Dubai become worldwide known and visited.

Tim


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 15922 times:

I will be laughing on the day they go bankrupt, which they will if they carry on like this.

[Edited 2003-05-27 19:44:36]

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 15921 times:

Absolutely unbelievable. I read that one or two mega-orders ago that one of their fleet purchases exceeded the GDP of Dubai. This has got to be another one of those orders. I would have thought the lessons of SARS would have made an impression on them.

These guys cannot go out of business. The government will not let happen.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 15878 times:

Yeah, it is literally impossible for them to go bankrupt.

Out of business, perhaps... they could just be summarily ended. But they are an extension of the government, not a business.

N


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 15849 times:

Incredible! Absolutely amazing!

My next question is... how/if Qatar and Saudia are going to react to this?!


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 15838 times:

I also wonder where in the heck that they can fly that many widebody aircraft particularly A380. There exposure to a traffic downturn is immense. I have said it before and I say it again: given this airline's voracious appetite for widebody airplanes, it is bizarre that they do not operate a single passenger 744 airplane.

User currently offlineJoni From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 15828 times:


Does Emirates know something the rest of us don't? Likely now is a good time to buy new planes since prices are bound to be low, but this kind of fleet enlargement plans mean they have to be very confident of future traffic.

The article didn't mention what kind of delivery schedule they mean to maintain, perhaps this is a very long-term project for them and they're just taking advantage of a good buying opportunity.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 15830 times:

They also insist on modern airplanes... which, as much as we love her, the 744 is not.

N


User currently offlineAerosol From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 15826 times:

In my opinion it is a perfect example of anticyclic investment. At the moment prices for "hardware" are quite low.

A do not know the annual production rate of the A380, but mid-term they could be the only ones offering a capacity for large scale inter hub traffic. Another idea could be that they will be a major player in the leasing business.

Of course, everything assuming air travel will develop as projected in the next 6-15 years.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 15810 times:

Another idea could be that they will be a major player in the leasing business.

That'd be my best guess.

Perhaps EK is gathering these such aircraft while the market is low... while planning to lease them to airlines still "unsure" as to the A388's potential/performance. Cathay, Japan, All Nippon, and Korean all come to mind.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 15803 times:

Also interesting to note is that they wont be replacing their 772/773As... as was previously expected.

User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15801 times:

On the other hand, they are very popular. If allowed, they would fly 200 weekly flights from India alone. A few weeks ago, people were doing cartwheels in Mumbai just to get on one of their flights.

I mean who would have guessed a few years ago that this little upstart could operate 6 daily widebodies out of London alone.


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15786 times:

This is an anticyclic investment in the aircraft market. True. However demand for airplanes is derived from the demand for air travel ultimately. As everyone knows, the market for air travel is unforgiving and very cyclical. A future downturn in air travel will result in parked airplanes somewhere. Whether they lease them or operate them, the risk exposure still exists.

I don't doubt that EK's managers are capable individuals however I think they are essentially unconstrained as -437B points out.


User currently offlineAirways From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 880 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15751 times:

"The power of oil"

It must be great to run an airline when money is never an issue. I'm really wondering what they want to do with all the A380s. Obviously, they have quite ambitious plans. But who wonders...

Michael
http://airsider.net


User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7360 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15719 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Reading this profile of Maurice Flanagan, one stumbles across:

He became managing director two years later. "We were given $10m and told not to come back for more."

And Emirates has been standing on its own two feet ever since. "We are uniquely unprotected against competition," he said. "The government here believes in absolute free trade. We get no protection from the competition in our home market at all and that is unique."
.

As for the size of aircraft, think not of capacity on routes in 2003 but of those post 2007. Our own MAN service saw 96% loads in their last financial year and they haven't upgraded the service until now but this article quotes him as saying, "The next step is likely to be putting a bigger aircraft on the route before we start thinking of adding a third flight.". I would imagine that sentiment would hold true for other services.

David


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16810 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15696 times:

They are a small Oil rich Country with way too much time and money on their hands, seriously.

Whats the population there? 500,000?

How about feeding some starving people, or fighting Aids in Africa.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineEg777er From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 1836 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15695 times:

Before you lot all start shouting about the "power of oil" (hey, if it works for the US and Iraq, it can't be that bad), take a look at the Emirates Group annual report 2002-03, availabile at http://www.ekgroup.com/ANREP2003/index.html.

Some very interesting reading:

Traffic increased by 31.6% to 5,145 million tonne-kilometres, 3 percentage
points higher than the capacity increase (28.5% to 7,350 million tonne-kilometres).
Aircraft departures increased by 16.8% to 45,452, while aircraft
utilisation remained one of the highest in the industry at 13 hours per day.
The increase in traffic came principally from:
• the introduction of new passenger services to Khartoum, Perth, Mauritius,
Osaka and Cochin
• the increase in frequencies to the United Kingdom, Germany, France, Qatar,
Syria and Iran
• increased capacity to existing destinations with larger aircraft, mainly
Sydney, Sanaa, Bahrain, Istanbul and Cairo
• increase in freighter operations (58% higher compared with the previous
year) with the introduction of new cargo services to Shanghai and Liege and
the operation of charters to various destinations.
Passenger seat factor improved by 2.3 percentage points to set a new record
at 76.6%. Passengers uplifted reached 8.5 million in 2002-03, representing an
increase of 25.7% over last year, despite a drop in seat factor during March on
account of the situation in Iraq.
Cargo carried in 2002-03 improved by 31.1% to 525,188 tonnes (2001-02:
400,569 tonnes), recording strong growth across the entire network.
Overall load factor improved by 1.7 percentage points to 70.0%, reflecting a
very strong performance considering the large increase in capacity.


So if EK can increase passenger uplift by 25.7% during the worst year ever for aviation whilst increasing their yield, who's to say that a) they can't make an un-supported profit and b) they won't need those A380s come 2010??


User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15676 times:

Like others have said, it must be nice when you run a business and don't have to worry about making a profit. I just see it very unlikely that they will need 45 A380's. Heck, few airlines in the world operate that many 747's. Only a few of the large 747 operators have ordered the A380 and in no where near the numbers that Emirates is planning. We'll see if Emirates succeeds or if it blows up in their financial faces.

[Edited 2003-05-27 20:52:42]


"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15670 times:

Sounds like a bit of jealousy here! They're a good airline making money. The same cannot be said for a lot of the other "top" airlines of the world!

How about feeding some starving people, or fighting Aids in Africa.

Sorry, what? What does that have to do with anything? If anything the US should invest more seen as though proportionally less of GDP is spent on Africa and other third-world places.


User currently offline747-600X From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2789 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15665 times:

I tend to agree with STT757. What above Earth are they planning on doing with these things? The population is actually 2.5 million, but still - that's less than most single major cities in the rest of the civilized world. I don't suppose I can think of any real reasons to object to their buying them, but at the same time, I can think of a lot better things to do with that kind of money. And of course, the question remains - what will they use them all for??


"Mental health is reality at all cost." -- M. Scott Peck, 'The Road Less Traveled'
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16810 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 15664 times:

Increase traffic from what though, they are a small Oil Emirate.

Most of the traffic is oil workers from the US and Britain or cheap laborers from India or the Philipines.

How about CASMS or RASMS, what's their profit margin if they have one.

Many airline can fill planes above 78%, but not many can do that and be profitable without being Government owned.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
25 Jaysit : "Whats the population there? 500,000?" This is irrelevant. They have made Dubai into an East-West hub, much in the same SQ made Changi into one. Not e
26 Post contains links Flying-Tiger : Most of you are only seeing the small picture - the order/carrier itself. But there is more. The government does know when the oil stream will end and
27 STT757 : "And unlike say, United or Delta, Emirates will never have labor problems embattle their single hub operations." And why is that, beacuse American com
28 747-451 : Well, if they can't use all of them, maybe they will lease some to others....
29 Jaysit : "Emirates can "import" dirt poor foreign workers from India and the Phillipines who can't Unionize or ask for better wages, medical/ dental benefits o
30 Post contains links David_itl : Ignore that 2nd link I posted...the right one is this. From my 1st link: Emirates avoid overstaffing, but does not pay its staff poorly. "We pay decen
31 Codeshare : What some of you did not mention is that Dubai (and UAE in general) will be running out of oil in the next 20 years or so. Its not the biggest exporte
32 STT757 : "The notion prevalent in the US, that all foreign workers are slaves working at sub-par wages is ludicrous nonsense drummed up by that wicked pairing
33 N79969 : Flying_Tiger, I think you made some very good points. However I think that strategy has limitations and big risks. All the points you made about Dubai
34 STT757 : The US Airline industry would be making money hand over fist if they could hire Mexican or Guatemalan cabin and ground crews, or have their reservatio
35 Jaysit : Almost all of Dubai runs on British, Subcontinental and SE Asian expat workers. What do you want them to do? Import surly, fat United prison matrons a
36 Post contains images LHR340 : Emirates is one of the fastest airlines growing out there, Dubai is also a fast growing city - tourism and oil have done amazing things for Dubai, it
37 Eg777er : STT757 you're fighting a loosing battle here and you know it. The facts are that Emirates are one of the best companies to work for, period. Just take
38 STT757 : Im not talking pilots, they have to be cetified Professionals something hard to find on the Steets of Mumbai or Cebu Phillipines. How about ramp rats,
39 Gigneil : A large driver behind Emirates is the desire to develop Dubai into something OTHER than an oilbearing nation... its an investment into the branding of
40 Jaysit : "cetified Professionals something hard to find on the Steets of Mumbai " Yeah. Thats why half of Silicon valley is staffed by those "hard to find cert
41 STT757 : Last time I checked the highly coveted world class Indian Institute of technology was not training pilots, the Former CEO of US Airways (I could not e
42 N79969 : Does EK do all of their maintenance and training in-house or do they contract out? The acquisition of such a large and diverse fleet could make them a
43 Post contains links N79969 : Well I answered my own question: http://www.emiratesengineering.com/ With all of that desert area, they could also have a facility that would rival Vi
44 Jaysit : "Last time I checked the highly coveted world class Indian Institute of technology was not training pilots, the Former CEO of US Airways (I could not
45 Arsenal@LHR : There are several factors involved in these aircraft purchase, first is the explosion of growth Emirates is experiencing right now. Their LHR route is
46 HlywdCatft : So when are they going to fly to DTW? They have quite a market with the largest arab population outside the Mideast in Detroit.
47 Fly707 : That's really strange I agree 100% with { dynkrisolo } may be one day become Swissair of the Middle East? Emirates are in need for narrow body jets mo
48 Gigneil : I don't know why we'd think they won't need any after the 345s arrive, yet they're ordering a whole bunch. Emirates is a wildly successful airline. Th
49 UA865 : Looks like Chelsea F.C. have a great sponsor. FLY EMIRATES.
50 N754pr : Did the increase the number of A388F's or is it still just the two? As for the order, amazing. Boeing and Airbus must be in a state of shock if this i
51 Post contains images ILOVEA340 : I bet ZRH will get either an A380 or A346!!!!!!!!!! hella mega cool
52 BA : This is what corruption does. Absolutely insane..............
53 N754pr : BA, What are you talking about. Please can you explain the reason for what you just said.
54 BA : N754pr, It should be obvious. With an unlimited source of revenue from the government, Emirates can do whatever the hell it wants and buy whatever it
55 Gigneil : I don't agree that its corruption at all. They're a wealthy nation... and certainly nothing about it is illegal. N
56 Post contains images BA : Gigneil, The US is a wealthy nation. If the US govt. backed up all the US airlines. We'd be seeing A380s flying Denver (DEN) - Colorado Springs (COS)
57 BA : Dubai is really an amazing place. In a sense it's kinda like Las Vegas. Except that you are always a winner while in Vegas you can lose. If you want t
58 Post contains images RayChuang : I think people here are really forgetting their history and geography lessons, to say the least. Historically, the Persian Gulf/Saudi peninsula area h
59 Gigneil : Dubai is really trying to prevent just that from happening... with things like Emirates. They want to promote as much trade as possible. I think that'
60 BA : Dubai is really trying to prevent just that from happening... with things like Emirates. They want to promote as much trade as possible. I perfectly u
61 Gigneil : Heh, I think a definition of corruption is in order. The one that applies to your context is " 3. The act of corrupting or of impairing integrity, vir
62 BA : They're a state run organization, and many many countries have state run airlines that will never die. And believe it or not, that is corruption. Alth
63 Post contains images Nickofatlanta : So when European airlines like AF, SN and AZ etc. were subsidised, was that corruption? You've open a big jar of worms!
64 BA : Nickofatlanta, So when European airlines like AF, SN and AZ etc. were subsidised, was that corruption? Nope, not at all. Because subsidy is not unlimi
65 Teahan : BA, How can you be so sure EK receives subsidies? See reply 18. Jeremiah
66 BA : Teahan, I read it and it's false, that's another part of the corruption. One reason is that Emirates was created by the government and for a long long
67 Post contains links N79969 : However you may view Emirates and other Gulf Area carriers, it is clear that Emirates has unparalleled access to long-term capital. I misspoke in repl
68 Rupertvander82 : My guess is that any airline can end up like Swissair. Even Singapore Airlines, if they do not run the company well. But I am surprised with this huge
69 Rupertvander82 : And yes, has Emirates started flights to Moscow?
70 Post contains links United777 : It looks like the report is true. This report was just posted on the Seattle PI website about the 773ER deal. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/1
71 Eg777er : Gulf Air should be long gone by now if it wasn't for the unlimited subsidy supplied by the government of Bahrain. Now I know that you're talking rubbi
72 Aerokiwi : BA, Your idea of corruption is completely beyond any intelligible understanding. Surely it is the right of any sovereign government to do what it sees
73 United777 : Why is EK ordering the 773ER with the A346 when they compete with each and are kind of the same aircraft except the A346 being a four engine aircraft.
74 777236ER : More penis envy? BA, you can't make such rash allegations about a government and airline. Like it or not, what they're doing isn't illegal. The citize
75 B747-437B : if they don't like it they can elect other officials *ROTFLMAO* ELECTIONS???? In the UAE????
76 Udo : Very amusing to read some guys' negative comments on Emirates and the UAE. Some do really appear jealous, very funny. Those who complain that the smal
77 GDB : During the early 80's SIA's big orders for both Boeing and Airbus helped keep the industry ticking over in very lean times, same now with EK, good luc
78 Udo : I just want to add some lines about the contracted workers from Asia. 1. These people are not forced to go to Dubai to work, 2. the workers have to be
79 Post contains links Teva : As a lot of people say here, Dubai is preparing a future with no oil. In the UAE, Dubai is one Emirate that has less reserves than some others, and th
80 Eg777er : Just to add a point about Citizenship. STT757 is wrong by stating that workers are expelled from Dubai if their work visa runs out. In fact, there are
81 N79969 : Out of curiousity, what bank or group of banks has the assets to finance this size of a deal?
82 B747-437B : STT757 is wrong by stating that workers are expelled from Dubai if their work visa runs out. In fact, there are several property developments in Dubai
83 Post contains links Eg777er : N79969, This is the sort of thing EK are doing: "MARCH 7, 2001 EMIRATES COMPLETES US$ 88.6 MILLION FINANCING DEAL FOR NEW AIRCRAFT Emirates has signed
84 Flying Belgian : I personaly view Dubai as a future Singapore or Hong-Kong. A gate to the Middle East and Sub-Indian continent. Quite impressive is the pace of EK's gr
85 B747-437B : I would assume that contracts signed for property would contain a legally binding obligation with the Dubai Government concerning any policy changes
86 Eg777er : Interesting. You obviously have more knowledge of this than I do. Personally, in Bahrain we have nothing like the freedoms to live/work that exist in
87 Jaysit : This whole notion of Sheikh Makhtoum and his buddies funding every business in Dubai is nonsense. Dubai is for people who can make money. If you can't
88 N79969 : Eg777ER, Thank you. That is interesting information. I suspect that the UAE government must be guaranteeing the debt of Emirates thus creating some of
89 STT757 : "but I've never seen an empty plane leave their primary destinations" The biggest myth on A-net is that high load factors= profit, low CASMS and high
90 Bobrayner : The biggest myth on A-net is that high load factors= profit, low CASMS and high RASMS = profit. You think that's not enough to make them profitable, g
91 STT757 : The thing with Emirates is CASMS do not make much difference when Oil backs the bonds/ loans, but there are CASMS with Emirates which are probably ast
92 Post contains links Bobrayner : Oil backs the bonds/ loans No, it doesn't. CASMS with Emirates which are probably astronomical given the huge fleet of expensive large widebodies Same
93 Jaysit : "The biggest myth on A-net is that high load factors= profit" But the applicability of this myth does not necessarily apply here. Emirates fly relativ
94 Post contains images Bobrayner : To agree with some much earlier comments... Emirates have ready access to capital at a time when most other airlines don't; and big purchases (most ob
95 North County : Udo, Oppressed illegal aliens workers in the US.... They came across the border illegally! They should wait and get a workers permit and then enter t
96 Cedarjet : This is one of the most revealing threads to have come along for ages. My god. I've flown Emirates a fair bit, and I thought they were basically (as s
97 Jaysit : I agree with most of what you said, Cedarjet. However, there is also some truth to the supposition that Emirates doesn't necessarily have to raise its
98 Eg777er : Cedarjet, I agree with everything you said. Not 3 years ago, Americans were saying that their model of air transport was the one we all had to aspire
99 Jaysit : "Seems the Europeans (and EK is run by them) can teach the US a thing or two about how to run successful airlines...." Ouch. Lets not go there. Rememb
100 Dynkrisolo : As long as international air travel is regulated, EK will not be able to get all the traffic rights needed to fulfill their grand expansion plan. For
101 STT757 : I can see some folks should stay away from the Non-Aviation forum, the Flamebait bs is not going to fly there. I don't think one member of this forum
102 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : Why is EK ordering the 773ER with the A346 when they compete with each and are kind of the same aircraft except the A346 being a four engine aircraft.
103 DesertRat : Very interesting posts, I must say.....I have to throw this one in though.... As a Brit who lived in the Gulf working in the airline industry, it was
104 Bobrayner : I don't think one member of this forum says there's anything criminal about what they do (Emirates), Incidentally, didn't BA call them corrupt? their
105 BA : Your idea of corruption is completely beyond any intelligible understanding. That's what you think. Surely it is the right of any sovereign government
106 BA : I don't think one member of this forum says there's anything criminal about what they do (Emirates), Incidentally, didn't BA call them corrupt? That's
107 Marco : And don't forget, the UAE is a tiny country with a population of less than 2 million people. Dubai has only 800,000. There is not a large enough popul
108 Jaysit : "Since when does it have to be illegal to be corrupt?" Since the law said so. What imaginary jurisdiction do you live in? "And don't forget, the UAE i
109 Teahan : Jaysit, enough, 45 A380s may seem ludicrous today, but by the year 2020, we may be singing a different story. Plus, these are options to buy, not hard
110 Dynkrisolo : Jaysit, 14 flights to the India subcontient would require no more than 7 planes. India is one of the most protectionist governments when it comes to c
111 N79969 : 45 firm orders for the A380 is my understanding as well. That is simply staggering.
112 N79969 : I give EK its due. It has done remarkably well and is far from the typical state-owned joke airline that is the norm in many parts of the world. Howev
113 Jaysit : Well, 45 firm orders is indeed staggering, if not a bit bizarre. But these can almost always be converted into orders for A345s, A346s, etc. Remember
114 Aerokiwi : BA, Have you completely lost the plot? Is your idea of corruption anything that is remotely left of centre on the political spectrum? It seems so, whi
115 Post contains images Udo : Amen, STT757. I couldn't hold back my tears after your emotional speech.... Regards Udo
116 Donder10 : Aerokiwi, have you read a thing he has written?I may not agree with him totally but I least I read his posts where he has clarified his position. I ca
117 QatarAirways : According to TradeArabia Emirates refused to comment on this but said that this report is just speculation. I hope the member Emirates777 can clarify.
118 Jaysit : When does Emirates begin service to the United States?
119 Arsenal@LHR : Emirates wanted to start US flights in 2004/05, but this has been delayed due to the war in iraq, not sure for how long.
120 STT757 : have absolutely nothing with Emirates or wealthy oil rich emirates and sheiks of the Persian Gulf region. I just have to respond though to the folks
121 Airzim : For the record, as was stated by BA, Swissair was NEVER owned by the Swiss government.
122 Fly_emirates : the 777-300's are needed by emirates. during the summer, some short flights on closer destinations such as DXB-DOH are operated by the 777-300, and at
123 Post contains links Bobrayner : 1. How about CASMS or RASMS 2. there are CASMS with Emirates which are probably astronomical given the huge fleet of expensive large widebodies. 3. Bu
124 STT757 : Ok who founded Emirates, what is his name and how did he earn his money. And what did he use as colateral to get the loans to buy the planes, if no lo
125 Gigneil : Emirates does pay taxes and landing fees. There are tons of investors, including Citibank and other prominent american banks. They clearly pay all of
126 Post contains links and images Teahan : Interesting article on ATW's website: http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=3102 The writer claims that the A380 figures weren't correct, sugg
127 Post contains links STT757 : http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/030529/airlines_emirates_1.html
128 STT757 : "Emirates Airlines is owned by the local government of Dubai, one of seven emirates making up the United Arab Emirates". The Government pays itself ta
129 Aerokiwi : Donder10: Yes I did read his posts, over and over just to understand what the hell he/she was trying to say. BA describes the subsidies EK gets as unl
130 Fly_emirates : stt757, now does your statements come from some kind of jealousy or something like that? i really don't understand why are you trying to make everybod
131 STT757 : When did I say they were not good? I said their "success" is different than what the rest of the business world would consider a "success". They are a
132 N79969 : I tend to agree with STT757 in several respects. EK is not a wildly successful version of UA, NH, KE, LH, or AC. It is a different beast altogether. A
133 STT757 : I personally have made my points heard, I meant no harm to Emirates, it's employees or fans. We are beating this to death, it's not going to change an
134 Cloudy : I used to think as the skeptics do here, for all of the same reasons. Government involvement, oil wealth, corruption, etc. etc. But some people on thi
135 Fly_emirates : STT757, well i am sorry if i misunderstood, but i thought of your posts that way for sometime. but now i see your point.
136 Joni : The government of the UAE knows that they need to develop some new, preferably service-based industries to replace their oil revenues eventually, as
137 Gigneil : People need to understand that the foundation of economies in different countries are drastically different... which is why our typical pro-American r
138 STT757 : "People need to understand that the foundation of economies in different countries are drastically different... which is why our typical pro-American
139 Gigneil : I challenge you to find an older established currency in the western world than the Pound Sterling. And ways of doing business in foreign countries ar
140 STT757 : I think someone needs to take Midol fast! The Pound may or may not disappear, either way you can include or not include the UK when speaking in a gene
141 Post contains images Bobrayner : STT757, I agree with almost everything in your post. Personally, I feel that the age of a currency is a poor measure of, umm, whaterver it was we were
142 Gigneil : Eh. Starting a sentence with "I challenge you" probably rarely gets the desired results. I just wish we'd talk more about airplanes and the operation
143 Spaceman : I just wanted to point out that economy exists will before modern time. People have been trading with each other ever since civilization started thous
144 RIX : I just wish we'd talk more about airplanes ..., and less about politics. - "airplanes" was exactly what STT757 was talking about: success of some airl
145 Cptkrell : WOW! What a discussion! A few of my opinions: 1] No matter how smart we think we are with the crystal ball, my bet is that none of the "expert" opinio
146 Dynkrisolo : How long a civilization has been in existence or involved in trading does not have any bearing on whether Emirates will be a successful operation in t
147 Post contains images Joni : Dynkrisolo, Perhaps that's why Emirates is ordering so many 380s
148 Na : Emirates seems to be one of the most optimistic companies in the world currently, if not the most optimistic of all. Their A380 order is even more opt
149 N79969 : For the reasons that Dynkrisolo and Na state, I am very curious to see where Emirates would deploy all of those airplanes. Even without any A380s, the
150 Post contains images Dynkrisolo : Na: Wow, what a rare sight that we are actually in somewhat an agreement here. A minor correction, Pan Am launched the B747 with an order of 25 planes
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