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YOW-YYZ For Only $19  
User currently offlineYow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

Ever since Jetsgo announced the introduction of $19 one-way airfares
between Ottawa and Toronto, AC has now followed suit on Tango
flights. Of course this fare is completely misleading to the
travelling public. With all the 'sucharges' the real base fare is
$59. Nevertheless, it sure is one heck of a good deal. Apparently
SG flights have been very fully since this promo began. Michel
Leblanc says that this will remain a permanent, everyday low fare. Tango's promo only seems to be for a few days.

It's amazing what a little competition will do eh.




26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 5010 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2178 times:

How does ML intend to make money on a $19 base fare ?

I know before this, the YUL-YYz, YYZ-YOW were simply terrible in terms of loads..

Mark


User currently offlineDripstick From Canada, joined Dec 2001, 2364 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2176 times:

hmm...how many seats are available at that fare. The ones closest to the lav? Big thumbs up

Dripstick







What's another word for thesaurus?
User currently offlineYow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2160 times:

My guess is it would be no more than 20. Again the real fare is $59. Remember, it wasn't that long ago when the seat sale fare was $99 return without any deceiving surcharges.

User currently offlineYow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2081 times:

Interesting to also note how YUL-YYZ is being advertised at $89 one-way.

User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2038 times:

Seems like Jetsgo is "going for the knees" when AC is a little hurt!! I think that there is great potential for a company like jetsgo to make a ton of money on these gravy runs!

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16367 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2015 times:

If you're running at a constant 80% load factor, it does no harm to "give away" the remaining 20% of seats (or whatever) at $19 for a short period to try & stimulate longer term traffic growth.

It's just a temporary yield management game.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineLymanm From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1140 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1999 times:

I'm outta the loop - does SG have any type of FF plan? Not that these fares aren't enough to woo some ppl away from Aeroplan/Star, but there are some that are ridiculously loyal to their FFP airlines.


buhh bye
User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1972 times:

I've long been bothered by the way taxes and surcharges inflate the price, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that SG or anyone else is trying to 'decieve' people with this advertising. The fact is, they ARE charging $19. All the other fees go to the airports adn the government, NavCan, etc., right? So I don't think they're really lying...$19 is all they're getting from you, as far as I can see. In all other types of business, companies advertise prices without taxes... why do we get upset when airlines do it?



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16367 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1967 times:

The only airline-induced surcharge is the fuel surcharge which SHOULD be added to the price when advertising.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineYow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1892 times:

I can live with the NavCan and Insurance surcharges as the airlines derive not much extra benefit from them. It's the fuel that is what I deem to be deceiving. No way in hell does it cost an airline $25 one-way for fuel per person for a short hop like YYZ-YUL and regardless this is a variable expense, which SHOULD be reflected in the REAL base price of an airline ticket.

User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1884 times:

I gotcha! Thanks, I had forgotten that fuel surcharges were (of course) determined by the airlines. I agree that they should be listed, lowered (fuel prices have gone down, right?), and also adjusted to be commensurate with the lenth of the route.


Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 5010 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1882 times:

JetsGo says its running the flights at 80%...

Anyway once again, I was in the JetsGo office at YUL, and the loads to YYZ are nowhere near 60% full for either YOW or YUL, and this includes the 1$ promotion to YYZ.

Mark


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16367 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1862 times:

JetsGo says its running the flights at 80%...

Anyway once again, I was in the JetsGo office at YUL, and the loads to YYZ are nowhere near 60% full for either YOW or YUL, and this includes the 1$ promotion to YYZ.


Jetsgo (indeed, no airline) would lie publicly about its load factors.

What does you visiting the Jetsgo office prove (or deny) regarding Jetsgo loads anyway?





Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 5010 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1821 times:

Proves a lot.

Nobody believes JetsGo's numbers..not even their own employees.

Like you have even said, SG has no pressure to present truthful load factors since they are a private company.

Mark


User currently offlineNoise From United States of America, joined exactly 15 years ago today! , 1855 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1812 times:

Lymanm, JetsGo does have an FF plan. I think if you fly 6 or 7 flights, you get a free trip to FLL.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16367 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1800 times:

Like you have even said, SG has no pressure to present truthful load factors since they are a private company.

Yes, they do. It's called corporate ethics.

I dount ANY airline deliberately releases false load factor data.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1789 times:

Corporate ethics, isn't that an oxymoron?  Big grin

Sorry Neil, corporations are notorious for fudging numbers all the time, and it gives not only big companies a bad image, but also the professions involved, including accounting. I recently saw a poll that suggested the least trusted professionals were CEO's, or they were number 2 or something to that effect. Whether this is merited or not, it shows the lack of trust general citizens have towards big business.

Jetsgo perhaps is telling the truth, but in their own way, such as putting a weight on the strong load factors to YVR and assuming YYC, giving them more weight due to the longer distance, and giving less emphasis on short sectors such as YYZ-YOW, where loads have been poor. But I am just speculating. I don't completely trust ML's figures either.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1766 times:

Word is Jetsgo still wants 12 aircraft, and even up to 15 by the end of the year, and 18 by this time next year. All are supposed to be MD-83's, and if a second aircraft type is to be introduced after that, it will be able to cross the pond.

In my opinion, that would likely mean 757's or 767's.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16367 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1742 times:

Sorry Neil, corporations are notorious for fudging numbers all the time

Not for load factors Nuno. It's a straight forward % filled of available seat miles. There's not much to fudge.

Unless there's evidence that Jetsgo somehow calculates load factor differently than other airlines, we have to assume what they report is correct.

I don't think FLYYUL's anecdotal comment about Jetsgo's reported load factors is enough to go on.  Insane





[Edited 2003-06-11 03:49:03]


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineLymanm From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1140 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1702 times:

Hmmmmmmmm, let us not forget how "ethical" Mike the White was when he was trying to peddle near-bankrupt Royal to C3 claiming it to be worth quite a bit more than it was...

I too would be skeptical, considering the source.



buhh bye
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 5010 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1697 times:

Neil.,

My intent is to fudge the numbers. One of my best friend's works for jetsGo, I think thats a pretty damn reliable source, the person who sees the numbers day in and day out..... but again im condemned to anecdotal info.

Mark


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1691 times:

It's called corporate ethics.

Corporate ethics and Michel LeBlanc should never be mentioned in the same context.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16367 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1671 times:

let us not forget how "ethical" Mike the White was when he was trying to peddle near-bankrupt Royal to C3

Perhaps C3 should have done better due diligence......

One of my best friend's works for jetsGo, I think thats a pretty damn reliable source, the person who sees the numbers day in and day out..... but again im condemned to anecdotal info.

Gee whiz...not just a friend, but a best friend huh? Whatever. It's still anecdotal.







[Edited 2003-06-11 13:05:31]


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 5010 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1636 times:

Yeah im the one full of cr*p..

The truth of the matter is that JetsGO's numbers are still very mucn inflated. The only routes where they get over 100pax on a consistent basis are pretty much YYZ-YVR, YYZ-YWG, YYZ-FLL, and YUL-FLL. JetsGo also does real well on the Carribean routes, but there are under contract by TMR/Signature vacations.

Mark


25 Yyz717 : The truth of the matter is that JetsGO's numbers are still very mucn inflated. The only routes where they get over 100pax on a consistent basis are pr
26 FLYYUL : Once again.. jetsGo's best routes are YYZ-YVR, YYZ-YWG, YUL-FLL, and YYZ-FLL, and recent evidence would support this because all these routes have bee
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