Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why Don't DL/US/NW Fly From LHR?  
User currently offlineNoelG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3117 times:

Forgive me if I'm asking a silly question, but can someone tell me why the only US airlines to fly from LHR are UA/AA?

I was once told there was a reason why DL/NW/US etc use Gatwick instead, and that it was something to do with the authorities not giving them rights to fly into LHR, but is there a definate answer?

Would it not be simpler to let all the US airlines fly into one airport much as is the case at CDG/FRA etc?

Thanks,
Noel.

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6001 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3104 times:

I believe that it's due to the Bermuda 2 treaty between the US & UK, whereby only airlines from either country (AA & UA from the US and BA & VS from the UK) are allowed to fly to the US from LHR. There are also a restrictions on which new routes can be started and so on.

BD have been lobbying heavily to get rid of the Bermuda 2, so they can utilize their large number of slots for flights to the US.


User currently offlineNoelG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3029 times:

Thanks CPH! Sounds a bit pathetic to me as well - if its scrapped it would make the entire London airport system a lot easier to plan and a lot simpler!

At present, if you want to need to connect through the LHR/LGW, you'd have to catch a bus with all your baggage which would take about an hour - it wouldn't be so bad if they were located a bit closer together!! At least if some more of the American airlines flew into LHR it would only be across Heathrow Airport!


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3008 times:

Heathrow is a very slot constrained airport.... even if we DO arrive at an open skies agreement, its unlikely very many US airlines will be granted many slots.

N


User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2989 times:

Heathrow is a very slot constrained airport.... even if we DO arrive at an open skies agreement, its unlikely very many US airlines will be granted many slots.

Well, DUH - GB wants to protect BA and who can blame them?


User currently offlineLHR340 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 877 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2976 times:

Well, DUH - GB wants to protect BA and who can blame them? no - LHR is a very crowded & slot restricted airport, but as LHR is BA's hub they probably get first pick at slots if they become available - but I doubt this because a few new airlines have started.

LHR340



A340 LoVeR! EC-GQK - LHR The Bussiest International Airport & 3rd Bussiest In The World!
User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2963 times:

no - LHR is a very crowded & slot restricted airport

That isn't the point. If DL, NW, CO and US had access to LHR, it would hurt AA, UA and BA's operations there. For example, if CO began flying EWR-LHR and DL JFK-LHR, UA would likely drop those routes and BA would likely drop some flights as well. AA/UA/BA's yields and profits would be hurt. Great Britain knows this, which is why they opposed DL and CO receiving just one daily flight to LHR.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2875 times:

Bermuda2's purpose was basically to prevent high-yield LON service from becoming what LAX-TYO service is like today.

The latter route would be immeasureably more profitable for the carriers which serve it were only NW/UA and JL/NH (plus three select other foreign carriers) were allowed to be those carriers.

Instead, we've seen JL, NW, UA, NH, DL, TG, MH, RG, SQ, KE, etc all fly the route more or less at the same time... and though the traffic between Los Angeles and Tokyo is plentiful and typically high yield, it was difficult for many of those carriers to actually make money on the route due to the swamp of competition... hence dropping it.


User currently offline2cn From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 648 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2824 times:

Something that surprised me, according to the latest Delta Digest (Deltas employee magazine), in the Q&A section, someone had sent in a question regarding whether Delta would start service from JFK to LGW, and the answer was they could not due to Bermuda 2.. now, I thought they had served the route before??? so I'm confused. They said it was because LHR and LGW "markets, governed by the Bermuda 2 bilateral agreement between the United States and United Kingdom, Delta does not have the rights to serve Gatwick from New York-JFK." Is that actually true? Like I said, I thought they had been serving that market already.. maybe I just imagined a flight to LGW out of JFK or something.

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2802 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

All the carriers that serve NYC are the only ones who have the traffic rights at this time. In order for Delta to have rights they would have to get them from a carrier that presently serve LON, such as AA, UA or CO all who have service from the NYC area. Delta does offer a chance to earn mile with VS, and now the code share with CO and NW they effectively offer NYC.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2799 times:

Nope. DL serves LGW from ATL and CVG. In the recent past, they've served it from BOS as well... but never JFK.

User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2703 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Bermuda 2 is an outdated, dinosaur agreement designed to meet the needs of air travel in the 70's. Time has moved on, but the B2 agreement still lives in the past.



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineMSPman From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 177 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2553 times:

Bermuda 2 is outdated but works currently because of the lack of slots situation. I have a question, if say one of the exclusive UK carrier service cities changes to a US carrier service then BA can fly LHR-MSP? Also, if they allow one more airline to operate LHR ex BMI and CO. Then under the current agreement CO could operated MSP-LHR. Would CO operate the route with their own plane or could they let NW use that slot and fly their own plane? I dream of ether a CO 777-200 to LHR at gate G5 ot a BA 777-200 to LHR at H5.
John


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

Though CO would indeed be the next airline into LHR should a revision allow a 3rd airline from either country (due to a previous agreement)... I doubt they could then switch that authority with a non-immunized competitor (i.e., NW)

User currently offlineTLHFLA From United States of America, joined May 2003, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2491 times:

Another factor of this agreement is that AA must have operations at both LHR and LGW. Flights to London from DFW, RDU, and STL must use Gatwick instead of Heathrow. Only the flights to London from ORD, JFK, MIA and BOS may use Heathrow.


Bill in ATL
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2478 times:

Only the flights to London from ORD, JFK, MIA and BOS may use Heathrow

AA's LAX flight also arrives at LHR, as did their former EWR run.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why Don't CO, DL, Or NW Fly To Australia? posted Sat Aug 28 2004 08:23:03 by ACB777
Why No 767s In NW Fleet From Early Days? posted Fri Feb 17 2006 09:03:28 by AirCanada014
Why Don't Any US Airlines Operate A340 Aircrafts? posted Fri Sep 9 2005 03:29:03 by JFK998
Why Don't BMI Consider Long-haul From Lgw? posted Thu May 31 2001 20:52:03 by LGW
Why Do EK Fly From Both LHR And LGW? posted Fri Mar 24 2006 01:49:47 by Zoheb
Why Don't US Carriers Fly To SA? posted Tue Feb 1 2005 12:59:45 by Bluepoole
Why Don't US Airlines Fly To Eastern Europe? posted Fri Sep 5 2003 12:52:06 by Codeshare
Why Don`t EVA Air Fly To/From Germany? posted Wed Jul 16 2003 21:26:29 by Sabena332
Why Don't US Carriers Fly To The ME posted Fri Jul 13 2001 16:36:12 by Bokratensa
Why Don't NW Sell CO's Golden Shares? posted Fri Nov 17 2006 03:15:46 by C010T3