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Mirabel In Its Heyday  
User currently offlinePlanenutz From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1282 posts, RR: 10
Posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1821 times:

Does anyone have a list of ALL of the airlines that served Mirabel hwen it was still designated the sole inernational airport for Montreal? I speaing specifically of the late 70's to mid-80's when international traffic to YMX was at its height.


Not all who wander are lost....
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4952 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1810 times:

Lufthansa
British Airways (BOAC)
Varig
Finnair
Aeroflot
LOT
CSA
Iberia
LanChile
SAS
Alitalia
Ladeco
Sabena
Air France
KLM
Swissair
Air India
BWIA
Aero Mexico
Aerolinas Argentinas

Many of these routes were prestige, and at the time,the Canadian govt only allowed for the most padt access to Montreal, and not Toronto. So many carriers were in YMX for artificial reasons.

Furthermore in the heyday, airlines likely used a 747-100 to cross the pond, or a 707/DC8 combo. They didnt have the range to get to destinatons like LAX so they had to make a stop in Montreal. Montreal being the first major city on the North Atlantic entry point was a good reason for its success.

Carriers started to bypass YMX when they had more fuel and range efficient aircraft.

Mark


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1782 times:

Furthermore in the heyday, airlines likely used a 747-100 to cross the pond, or a 707/DC8 combo. They didnt have the range to get to destinatons like LAX so they had to make a stop in Montreal. Montreal being the first major city on the North Atlantic entry point was a good reason for its success.

Carriers started to bypass YMX when they had more fuel and range efficient aircraft.


Ummm...this is incorrect. The 707-300 and the DC-8-50/60 series could all handle US West Coast-Europe routes easily. As could the 741/742. These aircraft were all in service long before YMX opened.

Many of these routes were prestige, and at the time,the Canadian govt only allowed for the most padt access to Montreal, and not Toronto. So many carriers were in YMX for artificial reasons.


This is correct.





Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAviationman From Canada, joined Dec 1999, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1772 times:

And.......

Aer Lingus
JAT
TAP Air Portugal
EL AL
Air Jamaica (charters)
Quebecair (sked and charters)
Nordair (charters)
Transair (charters)
Eastern Provincial Airways (charters)
Nationair (started December 1984)
Dominicana (charters)
Cubana
First Air (sked and charters)
Wardair
UTA
People Express
CP Air (sked and charters)
Air Canada
Olympic
Royal Air Maroc

[Edited 2003-06-16 01:35:46]


[Edited 2003-06-16 01:56:45]

User currently offlineAviationman From Canada, joined Dec 1999, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1713 times:

And later, closer to late 80's:

Air Liberte
Royal Jordanian


Mark, Neil: I have a question. Need some clarifications.

I thought the fed government "rule" was saying that all new int'l flights operating to YYZ had to include a stop in YMX. You guys seem to believe that the "rule" said all flights must operate to YMX and not to Toronto?

Can you clarify?


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1701 times:

Mark, Neil: I have a question. Need some clarifications.

I thought the fed government "rule" was saying that all new int'l flights operating to YYZ had to include a stop in YMX. You guys seem to believe that the "rule" said all flights must operate to YMX and not to Toronto?


I don't remember such a specific rule. However, after YMX opened in 1975, the Fed govt did place a moratorium on new intl carriers flying into YYZ (based on a perceived & vague lack of terminal capacity) which was quietly dropped in 1980 or so.

Bilateral negotiations with other countries in the 1975 to 1985 period always offered virtually unlimited access to YMX while YYZ rights were hard to get. Air-India & Peoplexpress both began YMX service while publicly stating that their preferred choice was YYZ for instance. This pro-YMX stance was seen at the time as being a tool to build up YMX traffic (which was embarassingly low) and to boost the general Montreal economy.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAviationman From Canada, joined Dec 1999, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1684 times:

Thanks. There was never such a thing like "fly to YMX but not to YYZ". It was "or you fly to YMX AND YYZ or you don't fly to Canada at all". Which in my opinion was pretty drastic.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1679 times:

There was never such a thing like "fly to YMX but not to YYZ".

Well, there was with Air-India and Peoplexpress. They wanted YYZ rights in the early 80's but were only offered YMX rights. It's effectively the same thing.






Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAviationman From Canada, joined Dec 1999, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1665 times:

Was not AI operating YYZ-YMX-India (Bombay or Delhi...not sure). People Express for sure was operating originating flights from YMX (B-727's).

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1634 times:

Air-India commenced YMX service and after some lobbying with the feds added YYZ later on, around the time that AC commenced YYZ-LHR-BOM-SIN with full fifth freedoms on all routes. YMX was dropped prior to YYZ which eventually also ceased.

This AC route started in 1985 first with the 742Combi and then switched to the L15 before dropped altogether. In return for the AC SIN authority to BOM and LHR, SG received YYZ-AMS-VIE-SIN authority with full fifth freedoms which ran from ~1989 for a short while before being dropped.








Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAviationman From Canada, joined Dec 1999, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1623 times:

Thanks for the clarification.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1620 times:

I meant SQ (Singapore Airlines) not SG.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAviationman From Canada, joined Dec 1999, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1608 times:

I thought you meant different. SG??? Jetsgo? Is it not?

User currently offlinePlanenutz From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1282 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1576 times:

People Express flew to Mirabel? Didn't this not jive with the concept of concentrating all transborder flights out of Dorval? Does this mean that People Express flights to EWR had to clear US Customs at EWR's then international terminal? Mirabel was never outfitted with ore-clearance.


Not all who wander are lost....
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1572 times:

Correct. Peoplexpress flew to YMX, not YUL. While this did not jive with the concept of concentrating all transborder traffic at YUL, the bilateral agreement with the US at the time precluded YUL-EWR flights, so YMX was offered to Peoplexpress instead, if memory serves. Peoplexpress did not serve YMX for long.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
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