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Air Canada And The Boeing 717  
User currently offlineAC330 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 335 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5079 times:

How many of you would like to see a 717 in the Air Canada fleet??? I know that it seems unlikely seeing as how they are mainly an airbus fleet but don't you think a 717 would look great...and it is the exact size of aircraft they are looking for. I can't see them ordering anything new anytime in the near future but I would love to see this type in the AC fleet.

AC330

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5025 times:

For the sake of variety I would prefer: AC A318s and Q400s
And Canjet 717s.



` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (11 years 2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4929 times:

AC together with SK, AUA and LH is considering a joint order of at least 100 firm orders to get a much sweeter deal from the manufacturers.
it´s been confirmed in the german media and by LH officials that this deal comprises aircraft covering 70-120 seats. however, the deal could still be split into two single orders for different suppliers since there is not one aircraft covering this seat range.
giving the record of AC, SK and AUA operating the DC9/MD80s i´d bet my money they´d looking closely at the 717. even LH´s seems to be very impressed.
although those airlines either operate a major fleet of A320s or the 737s, neither the A318 nor the 736 seem to be much of an issue for this joint order.

it should be noted that most of times, Bombardier was the only manufacturer named in many articles about this joint order. they seem to be in the lead, but their CR7s and CR9s don´t cover the entire request. so i wouldn´t count out the 717 just yet.

cheers
daniel



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4890 times:

If I'm not mistaken, LH has already publicly voiced their opinion of the 717--and it wasn't very favorable.

If you search back in AW&ST there was a paragraph about them not being interested in the 717. This was in conjunction when Boeing took one to Germany for a week or so for their evaluation.

I think their concern was primarily over weight for landing and ATC fees--not necessarily any operational issues.


User currently offlineWunderk From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4792 times:


I would like to see AC 717s! Unfortunately, I don't see it happening. For obvious reasons, AC will probably go for the bigger CRJs.


User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4771 times:

The Boeing 717 is THE BEST CANDIDATE for a DC-9 replacement. Unfortunately, many carriers do not see this.

User currently offlineDeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1701 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4758 times:

Not necessarily BR715. The 717 was 'designed' to replace the DC-9-30 series, however, the 73G can also fill this role quite nicely, as well as the A319-100. AC obviously went with the 319.

Bryan



Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
User currently offlineCopenhagenboy From Denmark, joined Sep 2001, 597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (11 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4759 times:

I would love to see it in SAS too

User currently offline717fan From Switzerland, joined Nov 2001, 2017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4715 times:

Star Alliance Airlines are still considering the 717. You can read alot in German about this upcoming order....and the 717 seems to have its chance. Last week a Star Alliance official said that the order could also be split into 2 manufacturers.....Rumours are saying that it will be Bombardier and Boeing....but rumours telling a lot...

User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4697 times:

The rumours I hear from Air Canada suggest that Embraer has the lead by a good margin. So nobody knows anything from what it seems!  Big grin


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 years 2 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4627 times:

Since Canada had Brazil in the WTO court for most of the last two years (Bombardier vs. Embraer on subsidies)....I don't see ANY chance of any Canadian money going toward Brazilian goods any time soon....

They'd sooner burn the money than give it to Embraer.


User currently offlineBoieng747-400 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 2 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4617 times:

Wouldn't it be wiser for Air Canada to get out of the financial trouble they are in before thinking of what new type they should buy. Getting new airplanes has a cost, AC's best bet is probably to rely on the types they have now and to trip operations down as much if they aren't profitable...

Tim


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (11 years 2 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4600 times:

Greg, if Embraer gives a better deal and better aircraft for Air Canada's needs than Bombardier can provide, you can bet the money will go down to Brazil. There are other issues that I don't quite understand which Air Canada is ticked off about, such as from what I understand, discounts being made available to outside airlines that Air Canada is not eligible to receive. Besides, you are comparing politics to capitalism. They are separate.


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineWunderk From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 2 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4544 times:

Captaingomes:

Politics and business should ideally be separate, but unfortunately they are not, and Canada is certainly not immune to this. Canadian government ministers have made statements, even recently, to reaffirm the government's resolve to help Air Canada. So much so that I don't believe the government would let AC close down. Therefore, AC can study its operations and decide to buy as many ERJs as they want, but in the end, the order will be transformed into such a political issue that AC will have to go through enormous political hurdles before seeing any ERJs. Also, CRJs are made by Bombardier, a Quebec-based company. That gives another reason why this subject can easily be turned political.


User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 months 6 days ago) and read 4493 times:

Politics and capitalism go hand in hand.
That's why offset agreements are the norm...not the exception.
You should know that.


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (11 years 2 months 6 days ago) and read 4490 times:

Wunderk, welcome to airliners.net!

Your arguments certainly have merit, but in the end there have been issues relating to Air Canada dealing with Bombardier. I wish I could provide more than that, or some evidence, but I can't really find anything. These are things I have heard from numerous employees, or read on other forums. If these issues are true, and they can't be resolved, you can bet Air Canada will not have a problem purchasing from Brazil, and that is also more likely considering this will be a purchase from the entire Star Alliance, where national borders aren't as important.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 years 2 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4453 times:

Lets go really wild with the speculation:
Star Alliance forms a holding company to resurect the FD728 family....
I recall Canadi>n being very interested in the 728 shortly before they were assimiliated by Mapleflot.



` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (11 years 2 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4381 times:

I dont thinkso Voodoo, infact Inter-Canadian (Canadian Regional) had placed orders for the EMB145 just before they went under, I'd never heard of an 728 Interest.

From the look of it EMB stands a good chance of winning the order, but I dont think anyone has won it yet...

frankly with some of the stuff that I've heard in the last couple of days I will be very suprised to see Air Canada still around by the 4th quarter of 03....



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineL1011Fan From United States of America, joined May 2003, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (11 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4313 times:

All the more reason for Boeing to seriously consider the 717-100 as a DC9-10 replacement. From what I've read on these boards Boeing pretty much refuses to make a 717-100 though...

User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 19, posted (11 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4294 times:

Aaaaaaaaaand what exactly have you heard suggesting Air Canada wont be around towards the end of the year? Because the pilots are upset?

If anything, with drastically reduced costs and a more streamlined operation, Air Canada is poised to become the airline is always should have been. Of course, many variables still exist that must be taken care of, namely ratifying the union contracts and working out the savings with suppliers.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16247 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (11 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4290 times:

From what I've read on these boards Boeing pretty much refuses to make a 717-100 though...

The Boeing BoD will approve any aircraft that there is a demand for. The 711 has been considered but no major airline has shown interest.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 years 2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4166 times:

Slawko wrote:I dont thinkso Voodoo, infact Inter-Canadian (Canadian Regional) had placed orders for the EMB145 just before they went under, I'd never heard of an 728 Interest.
----------
I remember the Inter- Canadi>n 145 order.
The 728 and/or 928 mention was made by whoever Flight International interviewed at the airline at the time...granted he may have been just talking off the top of his head in immediate response to a question on RJs, but the mention was definitely made of `interest' in 50+ aircraft in that class.
I guess the word `interest' can be interpreted in diff. ways.
i.e. one man's `interest' is another man's personal opinions.



` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineWunderk From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (11 years 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4068 times:


Captaingomes: Thx for your warm welcome!!

You're right to point out any bulk order will be a Star Alliance decision and not a lone AC one. In that case, I wonder if some other Star members such as LH or SK can place the order officially, then just lease the planes to AC. That can make the deal look better politically.


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