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New LGA Departure Route?  
User currently offlineBigphilnyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4077 posts, RR: 54
Posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2768 times:

I look at the Airport Monitor for LGA (if you hurry)...

http://www1.passur.com/lga

...shows that planes departing on 13 are making hard right turns and climbing fast over Astoria Queens, and reaching alts of 14,000 feet by the time they reach Manhattan.

Usually, 13 departures turn right to heading 180 and proceed to 2.5 DME, then make a slow left going aroudn the edge of Queens.

There are a few variations of that, but I've never seen this. They've been using it for hours.

Is it because of the bad weather here? New departure route?What's the deal?

And if there was a new approach or departure route, is there an easy way us av freaks would be able to find out?



Phil Derner Jr.
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN951U From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2757 times:

Probably due to special local traffic requirements that would provide a conflict using the normal departure route.... I doubt it's weather if they're doing the exact same thing for hours.

And if there was a new approach or departure route, is there an easy way us av freaks would be able to find out?

Keep up to date with the Jepp/NOS charts for the airport, that's how.


User currently offlineFlyguy1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1744 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2740 times:

I am pretty sure this LGA departure procedure going on now, is due to JFK using the ILS 22L approach. Normally LGA departure would turn pretty close to where JFK flights are now passing through. Passur shows this pretty well right now.


727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
User currently offlineBigphilnyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4077 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2712 times:

And how do I get Jepp/NOS charts?


Phil Derner Jr.
User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 32
Reply 4, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2684 times:

NOS charts are available from Sporty's Pilot Shop in Ohio (mail order, that is). I believe their number is 1-800-SPORTYS. Tell them you want the approach chart book for NY state (don't have the book number handy). They're cheap, and Sporty's gets them to you in a couple of days.

Jeppesen charts are available by subscription, don't know if they're available individually.

Gotta go, there's a JetBlue bubbles plane on the ramp I gotta get a picture of.

Tom in NO (at MSY)



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineBigphilnyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4077 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2683 times:

ummm....how much is cheap?


Phil Derner Jr.
User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 32
Reply 6, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2653 times:

Cheap, as in about 4 or 5 dollars cheap, plus the shipping (shouldn't be more than 10 or 11 bucks, the shipping may be a tad more than the book).

You might also be able to find them at a local FBO (Signature Flight Support, Million Air, etc). Not sure what FBO's GA / KLGA), USA - New York">LGA has, you might want to try something a little more GA'ish, like ISP or similar.

I can give you the exact title, costs, shipping, product codes, etc this evening after I get home.

BTW, our JB visitor was N564JB "Absolute Blue", looks brand new!

Tom in NO (at MSY)



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 32
Reply 7, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2622 times:

OK, Phil, I got your info for you (I checked Sporty's website) http://www.sportys.com:

You are looking for "Terminal Procedures Publications", code NE-2 (covers NY and NJ). Cost is $4.25. Shipping is $3.95. Total is $8.20. From the time you call them until you get your stuff is only 2 or 3 days.

Check their website, click on the 'pilot shop' link, and you'll find lots of cool stuff.

Tom in NO (at MSY)



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineWilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2620 times:

How much does this subscription service for Passur cost? I like it. Are there other good tracking services as good as this one? Free or not?

Thanks.


User currently offlineH. Simpson From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 949 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2573 times:

Hey Phil...there's a store in midtown that sells NOS chart....It's called Hagstrom (spell?) map center near 47 street...Try to look up the adress since I don't want to give out false info. They DO carry aeronautical charts and at a reasonable price of $5-7. Also sectional charts as well. But be advised that they can easily run out of NY-PA charts because so many pilots in the tri-state area wants them!

User currently offlineJcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2564 times:

Actually, LGA has 4 departure procedures when coming off of RWY13 (Coney, Flushing, Maspeth, Whitestone).... The one they are using today is the Maspeth Climb... here is the procedure for the Maspeth climb..

TAKE-OFF RUNWAY 13 (Maspeth Climb TURBOJET AIRCRAFT ONLY): Turn right climb on heading 180 until leaving 3000', then turn right heading 340, cross LGA R-220 at or above 4,500, maintain 5000'. thence....

LGA R-220 is straight down from RWY 4/22 (if you were to extend the end of RWY22 (beginning of RWY4) through queens, this would be R-220, maybe just a few degrees off...

As for why they are using this departure, it is most likely because JFK is using the 22's, and as the weather is poor, it is harder to maintain visible separation between JFK inbound and LGA outbound a/c (as they would fairly close to each other)...

If you take a good look at PASSUR, you'll see that the "non-turbojet a/c" (propeller planes) are using a different routing because they cannot fly the Maspeth Climb... they're doing right turn to 043, right over College Point...

hope this helps phil!


User currently offlineBigphilnyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 4077 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2563 times:

I forgot about the Maspeth climb! I'm so stupid! *plunges knife into own torso*

Wong, what kind of store is it that sells that kinda thing? An aviation shop?

Jcxp, can you link me to that site. I have it on my other computer. I want to check out other plates.

Jcxp, are you home now?



Phil Derner Jr.
User currently offlineJcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2553 times:

phil,

yea i'm home, got back to LGA at like midnight 2 nites ago.. i would link you to the site, but unfortunately it's a "pay only site" now.... (I typed out the description).... but if you do a search in yahoo for what you're looking for, you can usually find it for free..

the link is http://edj.net/cgi-bin/echoplate.pl?
if you wanna pay for the plates...




User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6903 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2498 times:

The Hagstrom store that sells the charts is on the north side of 43rd St just east of 6th Avenue. The charts are in a cabinet near the NE corner of the store.

I've always wondered exactly which LGA/JFK procedures can go on simultaneously. It's common for aircraft to be landing JFK 22L as LGA uses the Whitestone climb, but I'm guessing in that case JFK has to use the VOR approach instead of the ILS (which keeps arriving aircraft a mile or so farther from LGA). I assume visual separation isn't a consideration-- I've never heard controllers for JFK arrivals mention LGA departure traffic, or vice versa. And they'd have to mention it, right?


User currently offlineJcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2471 times:

I've heard Departure alert outbound LGA flights about inbound JFK flights every so once in a while, usually depending on what patterns they're flying, but usually LGA traffic is high enough not to have visual separation... The only other time I guess they'd really need visual separation (not really though) is when JFK is using ILS 22 and LGA is departing 13 (as was the case today)... There, the planes would get kind of close..

User currently offlineH. Simpson From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 949 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2467 times:

Ths store sells more than aviation chart....everything from NYC tourist maps to GPS map CDs...good store

User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2441 times:
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Phil, you can also pick them up at the pilot shop at KFRG, if you come out by me (about 5 minutes from the DOWNTOWN)  Big thumbs up


Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
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