On an interesting side note, Boeing said it would sell 170 777-300s by 2006. They've sold 121 through Sept. 11 and the worst economy in years. If the upward trend continues, we might just see 170 sold.
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9600 posts, RR: 10 Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 16 hours ago) and read 3641 times:
I´m not partial for A or B, I´ve favorites in both camps.
The list shows the 747 line has orders for 3-4 years at the current pace. After the 737 and the 777 its -despite the bad press of the past 12 months- the 3rd healthiest product-line of Boeing!
The 777 has a bad year but the ER version orders of past years keep it going through this valley of sorrows. But interesting to see that the -300ER has received just 50% of the orders the A380 got in less time!
The 737 line is very healthy and the 717 is doing somewhat allright at its low pace.
But the backlog clearly emphasizes that the 757 and 767 lines are virtually dead, with just a years production left (ignoring the USAF 767 tanker order -is that order carved in stone?). The 757 line might have to be closed down in 2006.
CX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4385 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 16 hours ago) and read 3622 times:
Well, the 767-200's order book needs to be increased by 100 airframes now that the Air Force has placed an order for 100 airframes to serve as tanker/transports. The 757 is on its last leg, and with the advent of longer range 737NGs, I assume it will be allowed to pass quietly. The 737NG, 747 and 777 programs are all solid. The 7E7 will more than likely sell like hotcakes and the 747 "Adv" will allow Boeing to squeeze more life out of the design until it can manufacture a totally new aircraft after 2010.
Boeing is not flying hight right now, but they are trimming down their product lines and developing a new product that will more than likely dominate its market. In my opinion, the 7E7 is going to be an aircraft like the 747. It and the 777 will carry Boeing for quite some time and control their respective markets.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
L.1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2209 posts, RR: 10 Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 16 hours ago) and read 3596 times:
The 757 experienced a similar order trough during its early years and ended up being quite successful. I think the 717 may do the same.
Boeings bread and butter. This is the money maker and that backlog will do nothing but grow.
The 744ER has potential and will probably sell quite well once the market gets going again. The ERF will probably be a huge hit. Look for a much larger backlog soon.
The 752 is probably pretty much dead, though orders may start coming again. Its a wildcard. The 753 will probably become a LOT more successful. i don't think the 75 is ready to die.
The KC order will revitalize the backlog, but the 7E7 will replace the 76 quite nicely. My outlook here is brighter in the short term than the 75 but cloudier in the long term.
Another Everett winner. The NGs will sell enormously once the market picks up. The earlier models will slowly die off.
Backfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 11 hours ago) and read 3347 times:
...that is the real moneymaker for Airbus
That depends how you look at it.
Airbus forecasts for the next 20 years show that the twin-aisle demand accounts for around the same dollar delivery value as the single-aisle market. But three times as many single-aisle aircraft have to be sold to reach that sum.
Leej From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 287 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 11 hours ago) and read 3340 times:
So it's taken over a week since Le Bourget for a Boeing fan to post some figures.....great.
Where was all the support for Boeing when Airbus announced one order after another?
I have noticed that B fans 'across the pond' have been rather silent lately - come out where ever you are!!!!
Leej From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 287 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 3268 times:
Sorry, I was just generalising. Over a week and a half since the show commenced. Now people are getting tetchy about dates....
Perhaps there will be some orders later for you from Farnborough!! (are B bothering to turn up this year, or will it be another virtual reality?)
BWIA 772 From Barbados, joined May 2002, 2193 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 3266 times:
He will also say that continuing to land big orders where aircrafts are sold just above cost is a good long term business proposal.
So do u think that Boeing will just totally neglect the 737 market like that. Yes the 737 needs to be turned in, however if a new 737 type that ranges from the 736 to 752 market based on 7e7 improvement seems to be the logical step.
Eg777er From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 1829 posts, RR: 13 Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 3225 times:
I think Boeing's figures clearly illustrate where the market will be in the next 15 years.....the 757/767 size aircraft. Obviously, they've looked at the numbers, and that's why they've come up with the 7E7.
Now, this puts Airbus in a difficult position as they have no competing product. A shrink of the A330 is too heavy, and if you update the A300 too much you end up with.........an A330. It's an interesting conundrum, and even with a bit of 'thinking outside the box' I can't really see a way out of it.....
Although, they could go for a different cross-section but that would cancel out the side-by-side LD3 advantage......
Eg777er From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 1829 posts, RR: 13 Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 3207 times:
Yes, it's a bad thing because the A300 (with the same wing) went to the maximum level of modernisation with the -600R, and the A330 is too heavy to be shrunk further. So what do you do? Design a wing in-between?
AvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2430 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 3202 times:
"My guess for which Boeings that are in for retirement, first 757, then 767, 717
and 737. I think Boeing will have a smaller aircraft family in the future, 7E7, tripple-7 and 747."
Boeing will continue to market the 757 for a time; it thinks there's potential in China but there's a real question as to whether U.S. domestics will come back to it. The 767 will fade as a paxliner but will continue for some years in its' military tanker form, the USAF has indicated strong interest in KC-767 orders well beyond the 100-unit lease now finalized; it desperately needs to replace hundreds of KC-135s over the next couple of decades. Boeing has said there's been a lot of interest in the 717 in the last 6 months; as the economy picks up, there should be new orders-it should be around for some years, I'd think. WHY the 737?-unitwise, it's by far, Boeing's best performer; it should continue for more than a decade longer. "737NG TOTAL: 74 customers, 2080 orders, 1315 deliveries, Backlog:765". I think the 747 will continue as a niche market airplane, bridging the gap between the 773-ERs/A346s and the A388. There won't be lots of orders, as the 744 used to enjoy but there'll be enough to sustain the line, including a proposed Advanced version. The 777 should continue to rack up solid orders as the economy improves and the 7E7 will probably be a hit out of the park if Boeing's DOC projections are accurate.
"Where was all the support for Boeing when Airbus announced one order after another? I have noticed that B fans 'across the pond' have been rather silent lately - come out where ever you are!!!!"
A valid question. No doubt this has been the 2nd Paris Air Show where Airbus has positively humiliated Boeing in orders, recall the massive Airbus ILFC order in 2001? This is somewhat skewed by Airbus's policy of saving up order announcements for the show but, nevertheless, Airbus is WAY ahead of Boeing this year. Again, I largely blame Boeing's 1999 abandonment (for the most part) of aggressive discounting for this huge disparity; its' market share has slipped greatly since then. Ignoring for now the direct/Airbus vs. indirect/Boeing subsidy issue, I think this strategy change was a huge mistake, sacrificing long-term market presense for short-term profitability. It's a perfect way to steer former customers straight to Airbus, regardless of competitive product merits. Now, if Boeing and the U.S. feel they have a valid case against the E.U. and Airbus, they should get going and bring it to the W.T.O., otherwise Boeing should just bite the bullet and honestly TRY to compete. Boeing need not lose so many many orders if it adjusts its' sales practices. In a dog-eat-dog world, you HAVE to be aggressive-Airbus obviously understood this when IT was the underdog. Now that Boeing is the underdog (in commercial aircraft sales, at least), it MUST adopt that same David vs. Goliath mentality and attack Airbus on all fronts; unless, of course, it merely wishes to diversify itself out of the business and hand the entire market to Airbus. HOW'S THAT, AIRBUS FANS? Heavy criticism of Boeing BY a Boeing fan!
Spacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2735 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 3152 times:
I see that the airbus site still has the Iraqi Airways A-310 order listed. Are the cancelled A-330s from the older NW order still in there? I believe they were taking 4 airframes off the tally each year.. there should be 16 or so cancelled airframes there.
AvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2430 posts, RR: 10 Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2964 times:
One thing I forgot to mention which I think we may all wonder about is why there's never seems to be any press in the mainstream news or commercial aviation publications about the great disparity in Airbus/Boeing order totals in the last couple of years. Why is nobody really talking about this, aside from fleeting mentions every so often? I mean Boeing's only landed about 40 orders this year versus about-what-222 for Airbus! That's a canyon-size gap and the fair number of high-value A380s in that total only increases its' significance. I think this is a huge story being deliberately avoided by much of the press though I'm at a loss to understand why. I'd think both premier sources like Flight International and Aviation Week would want to do in-depth analysis on this but they don't. Is it because they accept advertising from both companies and don't want to risk offending either? If so, BAD editorial policy on both counts. I've been wondering about this for the last couple of years, why is such a hot issue trated like it's a hot potato? Phil Condit pooh-poohed it in Paris as if it's no big deal. It IS a big deal but nobody seems to want to touch on it. Are the rest of you out there as curious as I about this? Why is the fact that Boeing is currently losing the order battle seemingly a largely forbidden subject? Your thoughts on this; Airbus and Boeing fans alike?
25 PW100: One thing I forgot to mention which I think we may all wonder about is why there's never seems to be any press in the mainstream news or commercial av
26 Donder10: And that's a bad thing? Extreme commonality with the larger Airbus widebodies could be a major selling point for such an aircraft. Could be another A3
27 AvObserver: EXTREMELY well put, PW100! I NEVER could understand why Boeing always retorted "it is all about deliveries, not orders"; that's only true up to a poin
28 AvObserver: The next issue of Flight International promises a recap of the Paris Air Show and perhaps, finally, a article on the order disparity phenomenon. I'm h
29 Wingman: Over the past three years what is the total order difference between Airbus and Boeing? Over that same period, how many more aircraft did Boeing deliv
30 0A340: To help you understand, Wingman: Today's Deliveries = Yesterday's orders that never got cancelled Tomorrows Deliveries = Today's orders that will not
31 Shenzhen: 2002 Airbus Net Orders 233 Deliveries 303 Boeing Net Orders 176 Deliveries 381 2001 Airbus Net Orders 274 Deliveries 325 Boeing Net Orders 272 Delive
32 Wingman: So OA340, are we seeing the light yet? Airbus has a larger backlog principally because it has been slower to deliver product. It does not have 1500 or
33 Osteogenesis: Only if you pick the last 3 years. If you pick the last 2 years or the last 4 years it in favor of Airbus. Not that this really matters. But it is sti
34 Wingman: Fine, last two years Airbus outsold Boeing by 60 airframes while Boeing delivered some 280 more than Airbus. Still paints the same picture relative to