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Note To Self: Never Fly AA  
User currently offlinePlanefreak From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 202 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3792 times:

This post is to express my disgust with American Airlines for their total lack of respect and fair treatment of former TWA employees. The news that AA is to "let go" of 3,100 employees, more than half of them from TWA, makes me see red all over again. Remember what happened to Reno Air and their employees when AA brought them out? If this news is not enough to read further that AA is planning to relocate 900 F/A's to STL to replace the "removed" TWA is a complete punch in the mouth!

AA now is reviewing its overall picture of their hub system. However reading between the lines AA has its target set on leaving STL all together. What will the business travelers of this airport and region do then?

They will fill every SWA plane know to man in and out of STL and SWA will laugh all the way to the bank.

Good luck AA, you can lay them off (TWA employees) but they will always be someone there in the shadows who remembers.

planefreak

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1909 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3728 times:

I thought it was the unions that decided where the TWA employees would be ranked for seniority????

Or would you rather AA go Ch. 11 and have a judge do all the dirty work, such as US and UAL?

Granted, its not a pretty deal, but maybe you should think before writing notes.

Good luck to all teh TWAers.


User currently offlinePlanefreak From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3702 times:

Unions and courts. We are not talking about them here. We are talking about the dirty process that AA has been doing for years. Real people are losing everything they own and why? The answer is simple. AA plays dirty and if AA went into Chp 11 it would be there own fault! AMR is not new on the block. They make their own choices just like every one else.

Planefreak


User currently offlineAIR757200 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1579 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3668 times:

Well, there's nothing anyone can do, so thank you for not choosing AA.

It's just a big circle with this "never fly XX-airlines" comment. Everytime I hear someone say that (esp. while at work), I just think of someone at another airline saying the same thing and coming to AA.

What most of you don't know and while it may appear to some of you that AA has no respect for anyone. Anyone who has been furloughed after March 31, 2003, AA has extended their flight benefits for 18 months (was 90-days), plus an additional six months for showing up as scheduled from the time of notice to layoff date. That was a good gesture that they DIDN'T have to do.

It put a big smile on my face!


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3614 times:

Good point, Planefreak, about SWA benifitting most if AA indeed pulls the plug on the STL hub. If that happens we will undoubtedly hear more of AA bemoaning the onslaught of the LCCs -- after forfeiting a hefty slice of market share to them.

User currently offlineTekelberry From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1459 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3594 times:

AA couldn't do anything about it. The union decided to put TWA employees at the bottom of the senority list. AA decided to lay off 3000 people, the union picked the ones at the bottom of the senority list.

Would you rather have them go bankrupt?


User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3579 times:

Before you decide not to fly AA, talk to they former TWA unions. They all, all of them, waived any merger protections in their contracts as a condition of being acquired by AA. They knew without the purchase they were gone, so they accepted the condition. They also knew what the consequences of waiving these protections would be. They have no one to blame but themselves.

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3578 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Extending air benefits does not put food on the table, and I am sure there are 3,100 ex TWA FA's that just got laid off that would agree with me. It is an empty gesture is all. It is space available anyway so chances are they are getting a seat that AA did not have the chance to get a revenue pax to buy.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAIR757200 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1579 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3487 times:


Thank you Tekelberry and Bucky707 for your posts. Everyone else is just looking through the "I hate AA" window.

So what if, let's say, DFW was to shut down... Are you all going to share the same sympathy to the AA'ers?


User currently offlinePlanefreak From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3451 times:

Lets get one think clear. I do not care for AA and if I would have want to see them go under, yeah, if the shoe fits the foot, then so be it!

Period!

Planefreak


User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1909 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3446 times:

I didn't think mine was a "I hate AA" line..as a matter of fact I was pro AA.

User currently offlineAIR757200 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1579 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3420 times:

Tan Flyr, I overlooked your post- sorry. And any others too.



User currently offlineTekelberry From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1459 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3381 times:

Lets get one think clear. I do not care for AA and if I would have want to see them go under, yeah, if the shoe fits the foot, then so be it!

Period!

Planefreak


Your nickname fits you, Planefreak. You want to see hundreds of thousands lose their jobs and the US economy taking a hit by the #1 airline in the world going out of business? Boy oh boy...what is this world coming to?


User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3379 times:

So you would have rather had those TWA folks go unemployed 2 years ago? I suspect they are a lot happier having gotten to work until now.

This just goes to the old adage "No good deed goes unpunished"

Steve

[Edited 2003-07-02 21:34:28]

User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3362 times:

AA's biggest mistake is easy to see with 20/20 hindsight - they never should have bought TWA. Then Carl Icahn could be taking the heat about the fate of TWA employees rather than AA.

The "I'll never fly XX airlines again" posts amuse me. YOu can bet your bottom dollar that if AA offered a flight for fifty bucks less than the competition, the apologists would come out, claiming they were "forced" to fly them.


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3314 times:

I am glad you will not be flying AA. Now I will run into fewer hopelessly misguided angry people on my AA flights.

User currently offlineE1FAIL From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

I believe a little over 1200 of the 3100 or so laid off FA/s were native A/A. It isn't like all A/Aer's are still employed at the expense of TWA. American employees are feeling the heat too.

User currently offlineJgiardin From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3251 times:

Let's face it: The TWA unions took a gamble and staved off furloughs for a couple years. Unfortunately, in the long run it is not good news. That is a downside of business, but it is not really AA's fault. It is bad that 3000 people will lose their jobs, and completely regrettable.

As for STL, it would be nice to see AA continue to operate it, but they have a hub so close (ORD) that it might not be reasonable. That said, they do not have a responsibility to operate it if costs can be cut through elimination. This is a bad time for ALL airlines (save WN and JB). There is going to be bad news like this from time to time.


User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3237 times:

Ok, If this is a note to self, why are you posting it here.

I used to hate AA based on their business decisions, but now I won't mind flying them if they are going my way. Their business decisions should not affect your flying them. I admit, AA does do some pretty messed up stuff, but I choose not to worry about it and if Don Carty wants to lay them off, let him. If it is a good decision, you will notice. If it was a bad decision, it will come back to bite him in the butt. Don't let it affect you in any way.


User currently offlineAA 777 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 808 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3230 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

The people who say that they will never fly AA, will fly them as soon as they have the best price  Insane

AA 777
Matt



CRJ-700 FO
User currently offlineRoastednutz From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3212 times:

if Don Carty wants to lay them off, let him. If it is a good decision, you will notice. If it was a bad decision, it will come back to bite him in the butt.

Don Carty laid himself off a while back, remember?



User currently offlineN951U From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3157 times:

Threads like this make me mad.

I was as much a TWA fan as anybody else. I have several close friends who were furloughed by AA after the merger or who have family members who were furloughed. Yes, it is a very sad situation. However, when it comes down to it, many people had jobs for longer than they would have without the merger. For the situation afterward.... you can blame the unions for that, namely the TWA ALPA MEC chair. The industry is in an unfortunate situation. You want lower fares? The network carriers have to shrink, cut costs, cut lesser profitable routes, and that means cutting labor. I could go on and lay the blame for some cuts at major carriers with the LCCs, but that would be childish.

The TWA people I have encountered over the years are some of the most resilient folks in the industry. As one TWA Captain put it to me, "When AA starts sinking, it's the TWAers who know how to swim." This is truly a terrible time for many people and hopefully they work through it.

What I absolutely do not agree with here is this "I'm not flying AA because...." crap. If you truly cared, you'd support the airline in its turnaround and pull for AA's future. Only after a turnaround can the recalls start.


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3153 times:

The public could care less, one way or the other how airline employees are treated, which is why Union propoganda or company propoganda-in most lines of work, are like putting an ice cube on a hotplate, far as the public is concerned.

Whether I or you or anyone likes how the TW employees are being treated-and I certainly think it was planned that way from the time the merger took place-is irrelevant. The public doesn't care, as long as they get cheap flights that are on time.


User currently offlineAA717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3100 times:

Bucky--Please keep in mind that the scope was forcibly taken from the TWA pilots. If we hadn't surrendered the scope, we were threatened with having our entire contract taken.

Would YOU want to work for AA without a collective bargaining agreement?

Kind of like the threats used by the company in the recent negotiations. Got A-Plan? Big grinTC



FL450, M.85
User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2005 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

Well, I was going to post this as a seperate thread but after reading this felt it fit in perfectly.

The St. Louis Post Dispatch was of course screaming bloody murder on the front page this morning, here is links to two articles, the first was the above the fold front page story this morning. It even bumped the daily above the fold Palestine-Israel story to below the fold (never understood why the Post Dispatch has a Palestine-Israel story on the front page everyday, but that's non-av so I won't touch it right now)

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/BA45B0C3E81194C086256D57001132C3?OpenDocument&Headline=Airline+hints+at+threat+to+hub+here+++

and here was a story on the front page of the business section this morning

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/business/columnists.nsf/David+Nicklaus/6B2CA5770E957B3686256D57004C679B?OpenDocument&Headline=Reservation+agents+could+be+next+on+American's+hit+list


25 MD-90 : I generally wouldn't fly AA because of my location and their cost. Delta can get me from Huntsville, AL to Norfolk, VA for about $280. Connect through
26 N951U : MD-90, I don't see how that's relevant to this thread. Obviously if AA doesn't fit your schedule, don't fly it. The prices are just related to demand
27 Tekelberry : What will happen to American Connection if the STL hub was trashed? Will AMR end their contracts with Chatauqua, Trans States & Executive or will they
28 AASTEW : Ask any TWA employee if they were crying foul on their way to the bank. I'm sure we would never hear that from a TWA LLC employee. No matter what work
29 Lmp737 : Planefreak: Here are some facts for you. 1)Purchasing TWA was a mistake. 2)TWA would have gone the way of Pan AM, Braniff etc if it were not for the m
30 Alpha 1 : No matter what work group they were in they all received excellent pay raises. Great, AASTEW, and now that most of them don't have employment, thanks
31 Mirrodie : Thank you Tekelberry and Bucky707 and AIR757200 and others for your thoughts. Obviously you put more thought and TRUTH into the thread rather than th
32 Flyingbronco05 : Note To Self: Never Fly AA If you do fly them, it will help save the employees from being layed off. So instead of not flying AA and hurting an alread
33 STT757 : TWA never recovered from the flight 800 tragedy, in the mid-late 1990s while other airlines were making record profits TWA was dragging through. If AA
34 Yyz717 : If the ex-TWA employees want to blame anyone for their plight, they should blame the incompetent TW mgmt that ran TW into the ground from deregulation
35 MD-90 : I was just pointing out an example of why I personally don't fly AA.
36 Luv2fly : Would TWA have survived with out the AA buy out? We will never actually know, now will we, we can speculate till the cows come home. Do we like how it
37 AmericanF100 : I agree that what AA is doing doesn't seem like it's fair. But then reading about how the TWA employees agreed to this thing about seniority and no pr
38 AA717driver : What killed TWA was a combination of an intransigent union(IAM), lousy management(everyone up through 1996) and, because of the lousy management, goin
39 Cwapilot : Far from a "I Hate AA" person, I have to say, after giving them a chance on my most recent trip after years of travel amlmost exclusively on UA, I hav
40 Hpa318 : Everyone seems to forget that we did not only acquire FA's from TWA, we got a slew of people from different depts. A lot of whom still have jobs and a
41 Tekelberry : Cwapilot, If you have a damn problem with one of your flights, WE can't do anything about it! Has it ever occured to you that the only people that can
42 Luv2fly : Hpa318 These FA's that had 29 and 34 years flying should just retire? Lets see who you feel after you doing a job you love for this period of time and
43 E1FAIL : cwapilot, They all wear nametags. Write down the names of the employees and a brief description of the situation and send it to the company. Believe i
44 Post contains images ZSSNC : Cwapilot, that is what my host parents experienced on their AA ORD/FRA/ORD flights. The pilots told them to remain seated under all circumstances (not
45 AA767400 : E1FAIL, What will you get from writing a letter? Miles? upgrades? Maybe. But, if you think that writing a letter will get granny fired, think again. T
46 Tekelberry : ZSSNC, That sounds nothing like AA.
47 Post contains images AIR757200 : While writing a letter doesn't appear to have any effect, it does to some extent. You can give warnings, etc. but sometimes you just can't shape up s
48 E1FAIL : It probably won/t get you upgrades, but that is not the point. It probably won/t get major disciplinary action for the offender either...at first. But
49 Cwapilot : Tekelberry: Talk about immature and stupid! If you don't like a post, don't read it. Also, show me one time in my post where I stated that I would nev
50 Kevi747 : People write in all the time over stupid stuff. I just got a letter from a lady who was mad because I wouldn't dedicate an entire A300 closet to her 2
51 Post contains images Cwapilot : Kevi747- Then the downfall of the customer service employee is the bunker philosophy that all customers are like that...not saying that is you, but it
52 Kevi747 : So far I've managed to not get too jaded. I have had some of the worst experiences with people on airplanes. But other times I've witnessed people act
53 Luv2fly : I have to say this, AA was the first airline I ever took a flight on, and it was back in 1977! A 707 from DTW to LAX via ORD and return from LAX nonst
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