I'm still wondering if this flights will be successful, since they don't end in Tijuana or any other border city, but hope that Mexicana did a very good market research before starting these flights!!! What do you think???
AM From Mexico, joined Oct 1999, 577 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1987 times:
I agree, this is kind of a weird flight. An uncle of mine is an F100 first officer, when I asked him what he thought about the new route he chuckled and he told me he'd like to see other new flights with the Fokker instead of Guadalajara/Cuernavaca, like flights to more important cities in Mexico or Denver or Los Angeles. I guess he thinks of the CVJ flight as just another small town (and airport) to flight to. And it's not precisely gonna be a very appreciated flight for the crews. Since MXA crews are based at Mexico City, they're gonna have to drive to MEX to sign the start of their work day, then take a company van all the way to CVJ (!!!) for the 7:10am departure to GDL. Talk about having to wake up early. He didn't tell me about the GDL/CVJ leg, but I assume it will be the same... taking a company van to MEX and then drive home.
By the way, have you seen CVJ? I think it's gotta be one of the least known difficult approaches in Mexico. The airport is completely surrounded by high mountains, and the best it has is a VOR/DME-A approach, with the VOR in a different location (TEQ - Tequis), so a lot must be done visually with very difficult terrain. And if you're arriving from MTY, you have to fly through Mexico City's airspace and then make the dive towards CVJ. The arrival from GDL should be simpler. I guess the route will be GDL/MLM/TLC and off to TEQ for the instrument approach (or maybe a completely visual approach to avoid flying all the way to TEQ?).
Although many people can seriously doubt the fate of this new flight, it can't be bad to see that Mexicana is flying to new destinations, and not only in Mexico. They've recently started Portland, OR service, and I think they're still looking into Philadelphia and Charlotte (am I right?).
Rojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2395 posts, RR: 10 Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1948 times:
You are right, Cuernavaca should be a very difficult approach... I keep saying that every time I go to the airport. I haven't flown from CVJ, but since my cousins own a house in Santa Fe, near the Alpuyeca Toll and a few Kilometers away from the airport, I will sure fly from CVJ one day knowing that I have place to sleep nearby (if flights last).
It will be interesting to see how MX's and QA's crews like the flight. Does anyone know where QA crews are based???
About MX new international destinations, it is weird that MX wants to start IAD and CLT, since IAD is already served by Mexicana (MX3020 / MX3021) on a codeshare with UA Metal and CLT will be served by Mexicana on a codeshare with US Metal when US starts flights to Mexico City in October (US628 / US629). I remember that US already applied for rights to fly Mexico City-PHL-Mexico City starting next year, so with US joining Star Alliance by the end of the year, it will be another MX codeshare. So I guess Mexicana wants to have one flight and let the *A partner have another one to better serve those destinations...
Pzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1384 posts, RR: 16 Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1930 times:
I strongly agree with you.
I would also like to add:
If MX and QA are succesful in positioning CVJ as an alternate and CHEAP option to MX), Mexico">MEX, they might have a chance with this route.
I remember having said that CVJ is smaller in term of inhabitants and output to QTO or PBC, cities with limited services to MTY or GDL. However, CVJ has the chance to be a cheap alternative to MX), Mexico">MEX.
However, their prices are not that cheap. U$210+TX means, aprox. $2,856... which is not a real bargain compared with mainline services MX), Mexico">MEX-MTY $3,200.
On how they will fill those planes, I also remeber saying that Aerolíneas Internacionals had full flights because all flights were heading to the border (TIJ, CJS or REX)... The question would be if MTY or GDL will be enough to fill those planes. A partial answer has been given by the a/c used and frequency.
Aerolíneas Internacionales had one daily flight in a727 to both cities. This means CVY-MTY had a capacity of 1.050 seats a week, and so GDL.
MX and QA are downgrading capacity. In the case of MTY, it will be served by a daily DC9. Hence a mere 770 seats per week. GDL will be served by a 5weekly F100, only 505 seats per week: 50% less than Aerolíneas Internacionales.
So, given the airfare and the reduction of available seats, it is concluding that MX and QA are not focusing anymore to the same market untapped by Aerolíneas Internacionales.
JOSEMEX From Mexico, joined Oct 1999, 1539 posts, RR: 29 Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1910 times:
>>If MX and QA are succesful in positioning CVJ as an alternate and CHEAP option to MX), Mexico">MEX, they might have a chance with this route<<
No matter how cheap these flights are (and, as Pedro said, they're not too cheap either), I don't think they'll get any passengers who would otherwise fly out of MX), Mexico">MEX (keep in mind that in order to make it to the CVJ-MTY flight you would have to leave Mexico City around 4:30 A.M.)
Maybe if the flights left CVJ a little bit later...
Also, does anyone know why QA is operating this route as well as MX), Mexico">MEX-AUS? Wouldn't it make more sense for MX mainline to operate both? I really don't know how much MX might save by leaving these flights to QA.
BTW, it was real nice to finally meet you, guys. Had a great time!!
Rojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2395 posts, RR: 10 Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1844 times:
I really don't understand MX, why not focus in the ethnic market just like Aerolineas Internacionales and also focus in the business market by having one stop flights to TIJ or LRD??? They know this market very good and the ethnic market pays high fares, since they aren't price sensitive because they don't have access to technology like the internet to compare fares. Hope they realize this and extend the flight to a border city... there are many people in the towns surrounding Cuernavaca that migrate to the US or who have family working in the US.
About QA operating the route, MX wanted QA to operate both routes, since they are using QA to test new destinations because of the lower operational costs, the problem was that there is no real presence of QA in GDL, there was no other place to send the airplane after the CVJ-GDL leg and they wanted both flights to overnight in CVJ in order to use airplanes that otherwise will be parked (look at the schedules). The only possibility was to fly the CVJ-GDL with MX mainline in order to continue using the F100 on another MX route from GDL (after the early arrival) and CVJ-MTY with QA to keep using the DC9 on another QA route served from MTY, like MTY-VER which leaves at 8:30 in the morning as MX7538.
I will assume that MX will evaluate the performance of the flights during the next three months and make the proper changes or even cancel the flights if they don't have a certain load factor.
AM From Mexico, joined Oct 1999, 577 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1822 times:
I believe Aerocaribe's bases are Merida and Cancun, with CUN as the Jetstream fleet base. I've never really known for sure, though. I don't know if Mexico City has become a new crew base now that they are adding new DC-9 flights from there.
Should've been a charter...
"... for there you have been and there you will long to return."
AM From Mexico, joined Oct 1999, 577 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1783 times:
Wow... that is a surprise. I just checked schedules on the internet and it seems you're right. I checked the CUN/CZM flights, which used to have several Jetstream roundtrips after the F-27s were gone, and instead there are only 2 DC-9 flights. That route says a lot, if there are no J32s there, I guess they're completely gone. So now Aerocaribe has an all-jet fleet... cool!
"... for there you have been and there you will long to return."
LeoDF From Mexico, joined Aug 1999, 359 posts, RR: 6 Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1776 times:
Yes Aerocaribe is now an all jet airline.
I think it's a stupid move, as with returning the J32EP because those were appropiate planes to fly the CUN-CZM air bridge.
Today, we only have 2 or 3 flights a day on this route and capacity has almost doubled.
I think there they operated at the most 10 flights a day from CUN-CZM with Jetstreams, times 19 seats each one had totals 190 seats available everyday. Today with 3 flights a day times 110 seats or so, totals 330 seats available!
It sucks!!! The only good thing is commonality on their fleet!
But another thing comes to my mind... What will happen with their facilities at Merida and CZM???
I think there's no bargain for the people living at Mexico City, so it will be the same if you fly from MX), Mexico">MEX or CVJ to Guadalajara., so we could say that the only persons who'll fly this route will be locals from Cuernavaca.
Also remember A. Internacionales fares of the CVJ-BJX of (299 pesos) 29 usd + tax (one way) and also the CVJ-GDL was (499 pesos) 49 usd + tax (one way). There's a lot of difference between Mexicana and Aerolineas Internacionales fare, but I think this route still
It's also evident Mexicana got no aircrafts to cover both routes..... (lack of Fokker's) so that's why they decided to put AeroCaribe as the airline flying into MTY. I was told that maybe in the near future they could suspend the CVJ-MTY service with AeroCaribe and trade it with Mexicana.
Mexicana and AeroCaribe took so long to take this routes because of the airport lack of mainteinance.... first Mexicana wanted to cover both routes with the A319/A320 but they didn't because of Cuernavaca's runway and it's poor mainteinance, CVJ's runway didn't permit the operation of aircrafts with engines on the wings (because of the rocks and other stuff you might find while takeoff or landig) that's why they choose the F100 and DC9. If you remember, AeroCaribe had no problems with the B727.
Rojo and Pzurita1, said that this routes won't be succesful because they are not ending at a border city, but you might think in the possible connections. You can't connect if you fly to MTY but you do have possibilities to take more flights in GDL. The first flight GDL-TIJ is at 7:10 a.m. I was told MX was thinking on the possibility to change this flight to an hour later in order to give more options to connect, people from Cuernavaca and Mexico City who fly to GDL on the first flight and it's final destination is TIJ.
Finally I think there will be a third airline soon in Cuernavaca which is AeroMexico. They will fly a direct route CVJ-TIJ with MD80s.
The crews...... I'm very sorry for the F100 pilots and F/As who'll have to sign at MX), Mexico">MEX, take a van from the company and drive all the way to CVJ. It will take a long time.... and It will be a very exhaused trip for the crews but MX and QA will paid their crews since the first sing at MX), Mexico">MEX.
I really want to see this new MX routes! Glad to see they are thinking on opening MX), Mexico">MEX-Calgary before ACA. Also it's good to see more routes to the US! And finally I think Quito will be a nice addition. Also I would like to see La Paz and Buenos Aires back, but probably we have to get more 757s and 767s... they need more aircrafts in their fleet.
Another fleet movement, two more Fokker's will leave MX's fleet. So they will be flying with 8 only. MX just add 2 more A320s... XA-TXT and N447MX, that makes 27...., so they almost get to 30 as they planned to end this year.
FLY M E X I C A N A!!!!!!
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
Marcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1721 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1717 times:
Hmmmm most flights from TIJ arrive and leave packed so I would guess this new flight (if true) could have a chance depending on the loads.........but then again I don't see the a big market for Tijuana-Cuernavaca flights.
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
Marcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1721 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1684 times:
Flying in and out of TIJ you can take the "guajoloteros" flights with multiple stops from here to MEX or you can also take a direct flight TIJ-MEX......the same goes for destinations such as GDL and MTY........the load/economic reasons for these multiple stops flights I don't know them.
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
Rojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2395 posts, RR: 10 Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1679 times:
The loads for the "Guajoloteros" are very good and that is why most Mexican airlines have them. The economics are a little bit tricky and the airlines has to monitor the inventory of fares very good in order to be profitable. The good thing of the "Guajoloteros" is that they provide airline service to cities that otherwise would not support a non-stop service. This means an airline can have one flight on the following route:
and sell seats for the following pairs of cities
by doing this, the airline has a bigger chance of filling the aircraft than if they had a non stop flight between each pair with its own inventory of fares.
Airlines like Southwest do this with their airplanes, but they give a different flight number to each leg with its own inventory of fares (although you have to consider that they have the market to fill each flight separately). Airlines like UA, AA or CO have most of their flights from / to one of their hubs, so they don't need to send a "Guajolotero".
About the loads of the "Guajoloteros", here are JR flights for tomorrow, judge by yourself:
FRI 18JUL03 MEXICO CITY /TIJUANA *JR
1 MEX1TIJ 0935 1145 JR 304 C0 Y0 B0 M0 Q0 T0 K0 L0 S0 D9S B
2 MEX1TIJ 0950 1200 JR 416 C7 Y1 B0 M0 Q0 T0 K0 L0 S0 DC9 B
3 MEX2TIJ 0900 1145 JR 206 C0 Y0 B0 M0 Q0 T0 K0 L0 S0 D9S B
4 MEX1TIJ 1055 1255 JR 406 C1 Y0 B0 M0 Q0 T0 K0 L0 S0 D9S B
5 MEX2TIJ 1035 1320 JR 810 C1 Y1 B1 M1 Q0 T0 K0 L0 S0 DC9 B
6 MEX2TIJ 1120 1410 JR 422 C0 Y1 B1 M0 Q0 T0 K0 L0 S0 DC9 B
7 MEX2TIJ 1200 1445 JR 604 C0 Y0 B0 M0 Q0 T0 K0 L0 S0 DC9 B
8 MEX1TIJ 1900 2100 JR 404 C0 Y0 B0 M0 Q0 T0 K0 L0 S0 DC9 B
Javomd88 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1652 times:
Well yup MX and Qa start today but there is now high loads to mty or gdl from here, Aeromexico personnel came here and saw very poor conditions and backed out for those flight but in august a direct flight to TIJ is bound to start, so this for sure will be a big hit! i heard it on the news the other day, so hopefully i will have the pleasure to fly over my house here, since i live in Cuernavaca!!!!!!!
On July the 7 th the first crews left for Seattle for the B737-700 training, i hope to start my training soon!