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Boeing Offers 717-300 To Star Carriers  
User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8338 times:

according to flightinternational, Boeing is finally offering to start deliveries of this new stretched derivative of the 717-200 in the 2nd quarter 2006 if it wins the combinded order by Star Alliance carriers Air Canada, SAS, Austrian and Lufthansa.
combined, these four airlines have forwarded a request for 100+ regional aircraft to Airbus, Embraer, Bombardier and Boeing.

the 717-300 would be stretched by nine frames and include an additional 5 rows of seats, totalling a maximum capacity of about 130 seats.

cheers
daniel




If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8068 times:

Very interesting......I wonder if Boeing told AirTran about this before or after they placed the 737NG order? But by the time the first deliveries of the 713 would start, AirTran would already have almost half of their 737NG delivered. Perhaps if AirTran could convert 712 options into 713 options, if indeed Boeing is to launch the type?

User currently offlineBlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1913 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7924 times:

wow, very interesting news. Most people, and I was pretty close to agreeing, didn't see this happening.

As much as capacity wise a 713 would basically compete with a 737-700, the range issue make it obvious that the planes serve different markets.

Hope this stretched 717 flies, I'm all for the line rolling on.

George



They're not handing trophies out today
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7827 times:

I'm a big fan of the 2-3 seat configuration and as such, I'm all for a 713. From AC's perspective, I'd have 3 questions.

First: What will its range be?
Second: What will its range be?
Third: What will its range be?

If it's around 2500nm, I say go for it.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7821 times:

I think the range of the 717-300 would have negated it being ordered by Airtran. This is definately very interesting news. It seems like Boeing is putting on the full court press to win this one. This would essentially create a "family" of 717s which has been one of the knocks against the program from its conception. If my memory serves me correctly, SAS, Air Canada and Austrian all operated the DC-9 series jet for quite some time. The current reincarnation can only improve upon a good thing!

717= Regional Jet costs + mainline jet profits.



"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4602 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7781 times:

I don't think AirTran would have many problems converting options on existing 717-200 and 737-700/800 to the 717-300 if they feel it will work better than the 737-700 in various markets. For example...if the 713 can provide a lower operating cost on short hops than the 73G, they'll likely add them in as well to increase capacity on the short hops. The 73G and 738s then will go towards expanding longer range routes that the 717 cannot reach.

Now to wait for the message from you know who screaming about the 717 line still being open. ::sigh::  Insane


User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7712 times:

Range would be around 1600nm.
There are also talks about a 717-100, be it a slightly shortened version, or just a low-gross-weight version of the -200, for fewer passengers.

Aslo in the race:
A318 (poor chances I think, no family downwards)
CRJ-900 (poor chances again, no family upwards)
ERJ-170/190 (looking not bad)
RRJ possibly
728/928 (depends on what china decides is to be done)

SailorOrion


User currently offlineAtcboy73 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7701 times:

AWESOME NEWS!

Did anyone forget to ask, what the range would be  Big thumbs up

I love the 2-3 configuration also and try to fly in that configuration when ever I can. Why,you ask. Its is so much nicer to only ask one person to get up for a bathroom break than asking two.

IM a must have window seat kind of guy  Big thumbs up

I also love this symbol------>  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7667 times:

Air Tran won't convert its 737-700s to 717-300s because the 737s were bought to fly to the west coast like BWI-LAX, MCO-SFO etc. The 717 cant fly that.

User currently offlineBeltwaybandit From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7651 times:

"When the only solution you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail."

I've always loved that saying, and it kind of applies here. Boeing blew it by not developing a smaller, short-hop aircraft from scratch starting 10 years ago. (They could have bought the 728 jet program from Dornier.) They left themselves wide open in this segment (as did Airbus). The JetBlue order is shaking everyone up.

The 717 is really a generation behind in wing technology, but it's all Boeing has to offer in the near-term. So they offer it. You can sell more 717-200s if you add a -300 (and maybe -100). It would be neat if they decided to develop a new wing and engines for the 717.


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7592 times:

The 717 does have new highly fuel efficient engines! BMW manufacturers parts of it! Is it called the BR-715???? Its wing does exactly what it was designed for which is short flights with the majority of the time being spent in climb or descent. No amount of "Time" will replace the overall efficiency that the DC-9s wing has.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineL1011Fan From United States of America, joined May 2003, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7371 times:

Yes! This is great news! I'm really glad to hear Boeing is giving the 717 the fair chance it deserves. I too like the 3-2 seating arrangement and I hope the 713 gets a *lot* of orders. Go Boeing!


User currently offline717fan From Switzerland, joined Nov 2001, 2017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7364 times:

Nice news! Midwest has just slowed the delivery process of its 717's to 2006....so Boeing will have a lot of delivery slots open until then....a sign of new orders? Just speculation....

User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8508 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7334 times:

The 717s wing is decently modern enough. The MD-90 sure would've benefitted if McD could've tweaked it like Boeing did for the 717.

User currently offlineAC_B777 From Canada, joined Aug 2000, 809 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7213 times:

Sounds good, but if the capacity goes up to 130 pax, then why would AC want it?
We are looking for a/c with a capacity of 50-110 pax. We already have the A319 with a capacity of 120, so I think the 713 would probably be out as a contender with AC. However, I could be wrong.
I think Boeing should try and market an extended range version of the 717-200, then I think AC would probably go for it.

AC_B777



In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7128 times:

airTran, airTran, Boeing didn't offer this to airtran but WILL offer this to Star.
Shows their priorities.
-UN



What now?
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6929 times:

Question is. . .do you really think any airline will bite and keep the 717 in production for years to come? Will we see more 713s than 712s?


Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineBWIA 772 From Barbados, joined May 2002, 2200 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6858 times:

Great news for the 717 family I hope they get some orders soon.


Eagles Soar!
User currently offlineRIX From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6741 times:

Any confirmation from different source? Great if becomes reality...

User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6676 times:

Any confirmation from different source? Great if becomes reality...

Nothing on http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/, but Boeing seem to have been talking about it informally.

For instance:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/126013_air11.html

There's no point in going for longer range - then Boeing start to suffer more from internal competition. Best to tailor it for shorter, high-frequency routes, surely?



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineL1011Fan From United States of America, joined May 2003, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6582 times:

712LR or 713LR = Replacement for 736

User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3661 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6406 times:
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UN_B732,

AirTran wanted and ordered an aircraft that can easily do transcon flights. The proposed 717-300 just increases capacity and will not have the range to fly transcon. Plus Boeing has always said they will not build it unless it gets enough firm orders.


User currently offlineN844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6351 times:

It's odd to think that if Boeing decides to discontinue the 717, it'll be the first time in nearly 40 years that a DC-9 variant hasn't been in production.

Obviously its not the same craft as when it debuted, but that's quite an impressive run for the same basic design.



New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
User currently offlineAirlinelover From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5580 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6283 times:

What else could they do to the wing design?: Add winglets?? That's be nice.. But, if the design works, and sells, why change it?

Chris



Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
User currently offlineQANTAS747 From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6184 times:

713LR= Replacement 733's in QF

QF really like the 712's and if they get thier hands on a 713LR that they can have flying trans-tasman, it would really be handy for those lower pax routes, eg. CBR-AKL, CBR-WLG, maybe even MEL-WLG, the mind boggles as to how versatile a 3-2 aircraft operating Transtasman will work.. I hope it does happen.. Needs range to compete though.


25 SailorOrion : The 717 will be used for short-haul, high frequency routes. Fuel consumption accounts for about 20% of the operation costs of these flights, so gettin
26 Johnnybgoode : although Boeing now seems to be committed to the 717-300, i highly doubt that if this joint order becomes reality this aircraft will play a major role
27 JAL : Awesome news!!!!! Hopes Boeing goes throught with the new 717!!!
28 Na : Nice to hear. I was afraid that the rear-engined birds were on the way out. They´re so superior in businessclass comfortwise .
29 CanadianPilot : AirCanada wants CRJ's because its the best aircraft to add to their maintenance schedule. However I think they like the options availible (size wise)
30 Greg : I just don't see this happening. Sorry. It doesn't address half of the Star issue...which is a 70 seater. The 170/190 combination is going to be the m
31 Lgbguy : This is certainly great news for the folks at Long Beach, I being one. Let's hope this comes to fruitation and the the Star Alliance places a large or
32 Greg : It will need to be on the order of 200+ planes to cover the 717 development cost (existing -200 and new -300). What is the magnitude of Star order in
33 Yyz717 : I have not heard any indication of the order magnitude. LH would be interested for a 146/733/735 replacement, AC for a 146/732 replacement, OS for an
34 SailorOrion : Greg: Initial order should be somewhere near 100+100 as I was told, with up to 600 over the next 15 years or so. However I think 200+ is not a correct
35 Yyz717 : The current 712 could probably break even at about 200 sales (currently about 150) while a simply 713 stretch could break even with perhaps 75 sales.
36 MD-90 : I think all they'd have to do would be to "chip" the engines, no other changes would be necessary except they'd be more expensive. Haven't the engines
37 Yyz717 : If the Star Alliance launches the 713....QF, Airtran & Midway may also follow with orders also. They have all indicated an interest.
38 Danny : No way they will purchase 717. It does not fit their fleets at all. Lufthansa would prefer A318. They have strong preferations in Airbus and they oper
39 Travatl : If the Star Alliance launches the 713....QF, Airtran & Midway may also follow with orders also. They have all indicated an interest. Just curious...wh
40 Post contains images Yyz717 : Sorry...I meant Midwest. Thanks......
41 CX747 : This definately is an order that is multi-dimensional. Do we have a more links to an actual press release? Each aircraft has its strong points and wea
42 Greg : Sailor, No offense, but if there was a market for 600+ 717-300 aircraft only--the plane would have been marketed by Boeing a long time ago! Boeing has
43 SailorOrion : Greg: sorry for not making myself clear, its about 600 planes in the 70-120 seat category. SailorOrion
44 Greg : This is where Boeing needs to be creative and partner with Bombardier in selling a combination CRJ/717 solution (if not, EMB will rule this segment).
45 CX747 : Lets see what Boeing does here before we bash them okay! As I stated earlier, this is the type of order the 717 needs and Boeing knows it. Lets make i
46 BR715-A1-30 : Also the engines will need a couple of percent more thrust, which can either be done with "chiptuning", by increasing the fan size, or by adding anoth
47 Senliture : um...may anyone tell me that why the 736 is not good? heard that SK want to replace it, but why? Senliture
48 LGB Photos : Ah yes the always great negative comments from Greg. Anyway to answer your question, Star is looking at ordering 100 firm 717s with 100 options. Then
49 Yyz717 : may anyone tell me that why the 736 is not good? heard that SK want to replace it, but why? There have been reports that SAS is not thrilled with the
50 MD-90 : And I bet SAS has regretted that ever since.
51 Yyz717 : I agree with you MD-90! The only advantage to the 736 order for SAS was the ease to upgrade some orders to the 73G and 738. They seem to be happy with
52 SailorOrion : BR715-A1-30: As far as I am informed the only difference between the A1 and B1 and the C1 is a switch in the software (read: the Turbine Inlet Guide V
53 717fan : The same article from Flight International says that Aebal decides in 2004 if they will convert some or all options on the 717 into firm orders. They
54 Post contains links Fritzi : I read in an article in "Svenska Dagbladet" which said that SAS was only looking for a jet aircraft that could fill the gap between the Dash 8s and th
55 Yyz717 : I think that the 717-300 would be too big for SAS now, as they already have the MD-87 and 737-700 which have roughly the same number of seats as the 7
56 HlywdCatft : Don't forget the airlines with large fleets of DC-9s and MD-80s that could be looking for it. Yes Northwest- I don't want to get into the DC-9 replace
57 LGB Photos : SAS has had a problem with the 737-600 porposing(sp) in flight. Plus the plane has been maintenance prone also.
58 Johnnybgoode : i really don´t get why there´s so much fuss about the 717 not fitting their fleets, especially LH´s fleet. ok, for LH it´s the first "MD-80" type
59 717fan : So, one can think that LH really wants the 717.... Can you give a link to the Handelsblatt article? Thanks a lot
60 Johnnybgoode : you should try to "link" to the handelsblatt article via your next news agency. i´m sorry, but i didn´t read in the internet. we shouldn´t forget t
61 AApilot2b : Like many of you have stated, I really like this plane and I love its 2-3 seating arrangement. I really hope Boeing can pull this one off. It would be
62 Elwood64151 : AC_B777 wrote: Sounds good, but if the capacity goes up to 130 pax, then why would AC want it? Can you say fleet commonality? The 717-200 seats 90-110
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