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747 Seen Less And Less  
User currently offlineJmets18 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 178 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3485 times:

How long before both Northwest and United decide to bag their Jumbo's? I sure do wish they were as popular a site in the U.S. as they are over sees. It seems that unless you go to JFK, ORD, or LAX, you hardly ever see a 747. What are all your imputs on this?

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3422 times:

Don't forget MSP!
Well, the status of UA's 747's will be in doubt for some time, I guess. We still have no idea what will happen to the company. But I think NW will have their 744's for a long, long time. Unless they buy 380, but now I'm just dreaming.

Welcome to airliners.net!



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3329 times:

It is true that 747's in the US are a rare sight at most airports now. What I've found is that for the US markets, frequency has been preffered over capacity. So, instead of 1 daily DFW-LAX flight, we have 14 with smaller aircraft. (Actually DFW-LAX has a few large aircraft on it, but you get my point).

UAL747


User currently offlineCmckeithen From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 617 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3310 times:

The 777 is more relaible and cost efficient. So many of the airline companies are using the 777 more than the 747.

User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days ago) and read 3255 times:

This isn't just limited to the States. In Canada (specifically YVR) we rarely see 747's. During SARS the asian carriers either stopped flying here altogether, or downgraded to 777's. However, now that the traffic is picking up again we see the majority of asian carriers flying here (while at a lower frequency) with their 747's again. Let's not forget the fact that Air Canada is getting rid of its entire 747 fleet!


EH.
User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 3 months 3 days ago) and read 3252 times:

Does Air Canada have an 744's? If they do, where do they fly them now?

UAL747


User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2995 times:

Jmets18,

There are quite a few other airports in the US beside ORD, LAX and JFK that still have frequent 747 service such as SFO and MSP.

Yes, we could soon see the 747 out of North America (except for foreign carriers).



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineUA777lover From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2907 times:
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Until the 777-200ER or LR become the "norm" the 747-400 will still exist. In SFO, there are tons of 747's flying in and out of here.

And Air Canada has a few 747-400's left, and they fly to London and Asian destinations mostly, but I believe that they're trying to be an Airbus airline. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I know that AC flew a 400 to the desert at the end of June  Sad


User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2823 times:

The 777 is more relaible and cost efficient. So many of the airline companies are using the 777 more than the 747.

Wrong, the 777 is more cost efficient in it's own market which includes the A340 family as well. The 747 is very cost efficient in the 400+ seat market.

Also, how do you figure it's more reliable than a 747?

Ual747 is correct, in the Continental US, frequency is more prefered and needed over capacity.



-NWA742


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12119 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2718 times:
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Also DTW another NWA hubs see its fair share of 747's


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineKevin752 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 727 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2701 times:

I live close to LAX and I happen to do a lot of plane spotting and United has the most 747 but I do not see many other airlines flying them into LAX. The amount United has I can count so that there are not very many. Now Luthansa has the most 747's that I know of. I have been to FRA many times and I have seen many 747-400. Also does Lufthansa have any passenger 747-200 aircraft in service to day??


"Keep Climbing"
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12119 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2642 times:
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I read here on this board that the pax 747-200's have all been retired this year I believe.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33038 posts, RR: 71
Reply 12, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2505 times:

MIA sees its fair share of 747s too, in both passenger and cargo guise, so does ORD.


a.
User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2438 times:

Does Air Canada have an 744's? If they do, where do they fly them now?

UAL747


Air Canada had seven (four 747-400 and three 747-400 combi's). Since they are in the process of retiring their 747 fleet I am not entirely sure how many are left in active service right now. I do know that one was sent from YVR to the desert earlier this month.

As to where they fly them - I believe Frankfurt, London, and Hong Kong right now.


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EH.
User currently offlineDtwintlflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2424 times:

I cannot see us lose our 400's for a long long time. They are always full and are ideal for our Asia flying. I am sure over time you will see another widebody for NW, but come on,,,,you know we don't make decisions like that very quickly!!! I love our 747-400's and like I said, it is usually tough to find an empty seat going to Asia or AMS.

UAL decided a long time ago to go the route of the 777 and forego the -400.


User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (11 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 2304 times:

How many jets can Mojave hold? It must be getting pretty full......


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineStefandotde From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 2276 times:

I think the last years from 747 startet, plane is getting older and older, much more efficient planes have been built and will be built. f.e. tripple-7, airbus 380 etc. So i think the days for the 747 are counted.

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 3 months 8 hours ago) and read 2163 times:

UAL decided a long time ago to go the route of the 777 and forego the -400

Actually, UA is beefing up their 747 ops once again, as renegotiated leases/operating terms have lowered their costs to basically that of the twinjets.


User currently offlineYow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 3 months 7 hours ago) and read 2088 times:

YYZ is a good example of the gradual disappearance of 747s from North American skies. 10 years ago, on any given afternoon, you could easily 10 or more 747s on the ground at YYZ. After AC parks theirs 744s at the end of October, I believe the only pax carrying 747 will be on BA and perhaps KL and LH during the summer months.

User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7414 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (11 years 3 months 5 hours ago) and read 2014 times:
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NWA has 747-200/400's out of SEA, LAX, MSP, HNL, DTW, and JFK.


Made from jets!
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (11 years 3 months 3 hours ago) and read 1927 times:

I don't think UA will kibosh their 747-400 fleet just yet. The reason is simple: the planes are not that old!

I expect UA to hang on to at least 50% of their current 744 fleet through 2010, mostly to support transpacific operations (which are now coming back nicely due to the lessening of the threat of SARS).

I think further down the road once the economy improves, UA will likely seriously consider some major upgrades to their 744's. I wouldn't be surprised if we see replacement of First and Business Class with an improved seating class something between First and Business Class in quality (complete with fold-down flat beds) and likely improvements to their Economy class to create a two-class 744 for transpacific ops.


User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (11 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 1869 times:

The B747 vs the B777.

If you notice a typical 3 class B747 does not carry much more economy class passengers than the B777. Normally an airline that choses to deploy the B777 to a certain city is ot because they have not enough economy pasengers to fill the aircraft but because the lack of first and business class passengers. So when the B777 operates a route which is used to be operated by the B744 has economy class filled and passengers on the waiting list but the first/business class is hardly filled. I believe this load will profit more than a B747 which flies with full economy passengers and almost empty first/business class burning 11 tons of fuel rather than 7 on the B777. Less cabin crew needed on the B777 too? Talk about landing fees too, the money that can be saved in long term.

I think the B747 is more profitable on routes that really yield first and business class passengers. I think most of us agree first/business class are generally more comfortable on the B747 than on the B777. CX for example has a few B744s configured to sit only a total of 343 passengers with a large number of business class apssengers. Sure it will bring in much more money should it be filled on routes to London for example?

Cheers,

alvin

[Edited 2003-07-27 03:51:15]


Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineCaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1639 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (11 years 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 1878 times:

There sure are less of them sadly. Here in Montreal we have had 747s over the years scheduled into Dorval or Mirabel by Air Canada, Royal Air Maroc, Air France, KLM, British Airways, Swissair, Iberia, Air India, CP Air, Sabena, Alitalia, TAP Air Portugal, Olympic, El Al, Wardair, Nationair, Corsair, Aerolineas Argentinas, UPS, Cargolux, Air France Cargo and if I recall Lufthansa.. probably some more but I can't think of any others at this moment.

Today we are left with one daily Air Canada 744 to Frankfurt and an Air France 744 to Paris but along with A340s for the other two Paris flights. Royal Air Maroc now sends 763s. KLM sometimes sends 743s but this year has gone down back to MD-11s. British Airways sticks to 777s except during Grand Prix weekend when they send in their 744s for a few days. Many others have switched to A330s and A340s (Swiss, Corsair & Olympic). The rest have either left this city, been bought up and merged or have gone bankrupt... I see less at Toronto as well. Frequency seems to be winning out over volume flying.


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