Richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4022 posts, RR: 6 Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3175 times:
I think DL is ticked off that JetBlue has increased this market to two a day.
FYI: Luv2Fly is correct. The only current IFE on Song (or Delta/Delta Express for that matter) is the in-flight magazine. The much bally-hooed satellite TV is still a good way from making it to ANY Song aircraft, let alone the whole fleet. It was supposed to be in before first flight, then it got pushed to October 2003. Now, who knows. Sometime in 2004 perhaps.
JetBlue has had free live TV on every flight since day 1. Score one for B6.
Jeffie813 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 238 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2986 times:
does anyone know why song/delta or jetblue haven't started non-stop flights to lax or las from pbi? i don't have access to hard numbers like a lot of you do, but from what i have seen in various articles in the newspaper, there is a significant amount of passengers with pbi as a final destination on departures from lax, las, den, and sfo. national airlines had planned a las-pbi non-stop flight but a month or so before the inaugural flight, they went under.
Richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4022 posts, RR: 6 Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2976 times:
I would guess the answer is that there is just not a market for it.
I think if anyone ever did offer these routes in the future, I'm thinking LA is more appealing than Las Vegas. Maybe it was decisions like these that caused National to go under??
Well, if you needed to get to LA, you would probably at least consider driving to FLL or MIA, right? This is what the airlines are counting on too.
Jeffie813 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 238 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2962 times:
national went under fairly soon after 9/11 and it was mostly due to them not receiving emergency loans from the government...kind of why midway went under, among others.
also, there is a market for it, at least according to numbers that i have seen. but i know some people that use this board have hard data on it, which is what i'm curious about.
and if i did need to go to lax, i would just leave from pbi. mia is too much of a pain...i only consider mia if i'm looking for a non-stop int'l flight. and i know this will cause an uproar among some fll lovers, but i really don't like fll at all. the drive is annoying and the airport is just not as nice as pbi.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31117 posts, RR: 74 Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2941 times:
Good move on Song's part. This is bringing the Miami-Los Angeles market to 12 daily non-stops; six each from MIA and FLL, two to/from LGB, on four airlines (8x AA; 2x B6; 1x UA; 1x DL). Plus, United usually runs two MIA-LAX flights during the winter. The compieition is definitley going to be fierce, I wonder how AA will react. I truly doubt they are going to go more than three daily - no way - but they established themselves as the sole trans-con carrier from Ft. Lauderdale quite a while ago. They added a second daily in February 2002, and after jetBlue's announcement, added a third. FLL-LAX has been a very profitable market for them because Ft. Lauderdale is near the HQ of the majority of the area's F-500 companies and other large national corporations. Song and jetBlue are hurting the yields; I had already noticed American matching jetBlue's $252 Rtn. airfare.
BillElliott9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2926 times:
Jeffie813 has a good point about PBI, though. The last two years Palm Beach County and Martin County (next county north) have had more new residents come from south fl than the the rest of the continental US. An interesting tidbit; And he is right, that extra 45-50 miles to FLL is not fun.
Spirit MD-80 From Puerto Rico, joined May 1999, 87 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2931 times:
I'm so over SONG to many promises with the TV like Richierich said, it's funny because Song is about the food on board the TV (which they don't have), the game. But they forget the most important thing that jetblue has never forgotten CUSTOMERS, if you notice song says nothing about customers, there's just things that Song will never be able to COPY from jetBlue, and that's customer commitment.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31117 posts, RR: 74 Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2684 times:
No matter how hard Delta may try, they are not going to get rid of jetBlue. Sorry but I believe that jetBlue will have the customers in the LA basin and not Delta. I think Song is too little too late.
I think Song is going to do very well, but not at the expense of jetBlue.
In the Miami area, jetBlue has roared to success. They have done so because they have actually been able to build-up a customer base that is extremely loyal, and does not at all mind paying an extra $5-$20 over the competitor for what they feel is superior customer service and satisfaction. Their FLL-LGB route has been a storming success, with a second daily coming in September, and Dulles is finally getting the long overdue third-daily flight as well.
At the same time, only American Airlines has a larger customer base in South Florida than Delta, and Delta has not let FLL stand-still lately. In the past year, Delta has added non-stops from Ft. Lauderdale to Washington National and Port Columbus. In August they start Las Vegas, while September sees the launches of Nashville and Raleigh-Durham, and in October we see Los Angeles. This joins Atlanta, Cincinnati, Dallas, LaGuardia, JFK, Newark, Boston, and Hartford, plus AeroMexico to Mexico City. They have extensive coverage of Miami's big O&D markets and their own dedicated terminal building (the only non-Delta carrier that uses is is Midwest Express during the winter; though they likely will go to T3 next year) with a lot of room to grow (and they will be growing a lot at FLL in the coming year).
jetBlue will, without a doubt, continue to put a strong focus on FLL and grow. They have one problem, though, and that is gate space. As it stands, I believe they only have two full-time gates and a third they share with CO, and they are being used for eighteen daily flights this winter. Though the potential to grow with Oakland, San Juan, and even Buffalo (huge O&D market from South Florida and not served non-stop), is definitely there for them.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31117 posts, RR: 74 Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2614 times:
Actually, DL is larger at FLL than AA and B6 combined, I believe
Nobody disputed that, they are by far the largest carrier at FLL and second largest in the Miami area. In the first four months of 2003, they carried 1.03M passengers at FLL, by far the largest. #2 was Southwest with half that number...537,000. American is #3 with 503,000. jetBlue is #5 with 385,00. However, they were just barely behind USAirways and seeing how USAirways has cut service and jetBlue has added at FLL in the past few months, they are without a doubt now at #4, which is probably they highest they will go for now.
Spirit MD-80 From Puerto Rico, joined May 1999, 87 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2515 times:
Remember Song employees aside from the TALENT!! are DL employee which are a bunch of Dinosaurs, you can't teach and old dog new tricks they are so set in the Delta mode, yes for the first couple of months they might be nice but the time will come when the true colors come out. They actually will call a DL flight Attendant thats on reserved to cover a song trip if song has no one to cover the trip, How sad is that for the Song talent that all of t hem are doing the same trip but one flight attendant is making more money
Luv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 11957 posts, RR: 51 Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2487 times:
Well that will make for a happy cabin crew will it not! Are the uniforms that similar or do they issue DL FA's a Song uniform for just this unlikely emergency? And I agree right now it is new, slightly different and exciting, wait until the paint drys and you will see the true colors come shining through....
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6049 posts, RR: 25 Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2434 times:
Your comments demonstrate a pretty high level of ignorance. Just because DL employees are older and have made working at DL a career doesn't make them dinosaurs. I guess they could go work for a low-fare carrier and be burned out in 5 years (which is what the management at low-fare carriers wants).
If employees from other airlines are such "dinosaurs" why does JetBlue hire them? I know for a fact that JBLU has hired many F/A's from other airlines. So what gives?
I'm not sure where you're coming up with the Song doesn't care about customers stuff. You've pretty much just made that up. Song also hasn't changed any of its timetables in terms of the IFE. The timetable has always called for the TV's to go in starting in Oct 2003 and stretching into early 2004 to complete the whole fleet.
Capt078 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 421 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2405 times:
song will do well on the fll-lax and fll-las routes. certainly, song will not be successful at the expense of jetblue, but at the expense of american. as a traveler who frequently flies song and jetblue, i know it will be american that hurts. jetblue is the best, and there is no disputing that. but song is excellent, and they have done a tremendous job copying jetblue. so what if the private tvs don't start coming until october? they're still yet another step in the right direction; evidence that delta is starting to get the big picture. and anyone who claims song's employees are dinosaurs and unfriendly obviously has not flown song. yes, song uses mainline delta pilots, they're the only unionized force in delta and that's why song will never be able to fully match jetblue's costs. but the gate agents and flight attendants at song are now exclusively with song, and were lured with special incentives and a pay scale that is (i believe) merit and productivity based. in the three months song has been around, i have flown them ten times, and each flight has been excellent. they have a great website that is easy to use, clean and cheerful planes (with 34 in. pitch i might add), and the nicest flight attendants i have ever met. jetblue is still slightly better because they are more efficient and have private tvs and are a niche unto themselves, but song is excellent. american is the dinosaur, and this whole idea of adding seats/removing legroom is most certainly a step backward.
Spirit MD-80 From Puerto Rico, joined May 1999, 87 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2383 times:
I work for an airline since 1992 as a Flight Attendant based in JFK, I have become good friends with many flight attendants from when I shared a crash pad in Kew Gardens, I have Delta, AA, NW, and still former TWA friends that we shared a apartment, I have many DL F/A that were laid off and were offered position with SONG, It's sad that the Flight Attendants (TALENT) are the only ones that are getting screwed, they are the only ones that are getting paid peanuts while everyone else from rap to customer service crew are all Delta, the comment about Dinosaurs is very well used in the airline industry meaning very senior people no one takes offense to it, so I don't see why you should. And yes jetblue has hired many F/A from other airlines the ones that still care about the customer only, I have heard many comments about Delta from their actual Employees and not good comments, so Yes after a while the DL employee will show their actual colors, its all a Show for now, if they treat the Song customers so nice why can't they do the same for the actual DL customers. Now they DL employees have been trained by SONG people, especially in SJU that I know many DL Agents that song came down and trained them, at first they were all Friendly and happy but slowly when I see them their actual colors are coming out, mmmmmm lets see what is the term that the DL people used for the song customers out of SJU to MCO ( GHETTO PEOPLE). And yes Song in SJU newspaper had this lovely add about the only airline that offers Leather Seats that they offer TV and Music, ALL FALSE ADVERTISEMNT, No where in that paper does it say that the TV are not offered at the moment, And song does not talk about their customers it talks about what they can offer TV, Music,Food, to out do jetblue they are so blinded by trying to defeat jetblue that they forget about their customers, SONG is a big copycat of Jetblue that's all they are, why can't DL offer what song offers,?