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When Will PDX Get Pacific Pax Flights Again?  
User currently offlinePaddy From Taiwan, joined Jul 2003, 390 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4371 times:

Its been over two years since Delta stopped flying nonstop to NRT and NGO out of PDX and I've been wondering if any airline will start flying nonstop pacific pax flights out Portland anytime in the next five years. Is PDX even feasible for such a thing anymore, with Seattle being so close and already offering service? Lufthansa and Mexicana have started up service this year but still no pacific flights. I know that Oregon's last governor (Kitzhaber) was pushing hard for it and there is a big tourism initiative going on right now, but with the industry the way it is I'm wondering how long it will take to get nonstop service out of PDX. So my question is, how long do you think? What airline? And what plane?

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2900 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4294 times:
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I'm a PDX'er... and even I think that this topic has been discussed to death and back. Do a search for PDX Asia Service and you'll find plenty.

User currently offlineKwbl From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 444 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4217 times:

I think it is probable in the next 5 years but in order for it to happen, the Oregon economy must improve dramatically and the state needs to make itself attractive to business-especially from the Asian countries. There are really only 5 carriers that seem likely. NW and UA but since both have flights from SEA, it is less probable. ANA, JAL or KAL would be the most likely and probably with 777. It would help if PDX put together the same package that LH got.

User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4185 times:

I don't think PDX will ever get a big asian market with Seattle and espically Vancouver near by. If PDX those get Asian flights I think it will be a US airline to fly the route and will only be flown with the 777 or if NWA starts a Asian route from PDX it will be flown with the A330-300 when get more in the fleet.

PDX is a good market but YVR and SEA over shadow PDX. Most passengers flying from PDX to Asia fly AS or QX to Seattle and connect to Asia.


User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4140 times:

Yes, it's only a matter of time.

Don't expect an announcement tomorrow, but wait a few years and I'm sure it will happen.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3659 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4144 times:
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PDX does have a Pacific pax flight. PDX-HNL daily non-stop flights on a HA 767-300 (yes, it's a transpac flight). As for a non-stop Asian pax flight, unless a U.S. carrier builds up more flights into PDX to feed a daily flight, it probably will be an Asian carrier flying in maybe a few times a week.

User currently offlineHkg82 From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2002, 1297 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4119 times:

Does PDX have a large Asian community? I guess Portland is a relatively large business & shipping center (especially in the growing Pacific Rim trade sector) so as trade between Asia & the US continues to increase, it’s certainly possible we’ll see direct Asia-PDX flights. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Japanese, Chinese or a Korean carrier serving PDX with passenger services in the future. Japan, China & South Korea are the 3 biggest markets for US air services in Asia. Plus, Korean Air Cargo & Air China Cargo already fly to PDX.

Hkg82.


User currently offlineAirnondo From Moldova, joined May 2000, 241 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3998 times:

Hkg82, yes pdx does have a significant asian population, not comparable to YVR or SFO, but significant. The trade issue probably is the bigger draw, with the tech companies, Nike, Addidas, and others...
Cheers!


User currently offlineN754pr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3935 times:

I took Delta Tokyo - Portland - Tokyo, great airport and very nice people.

Remember it was not called `deportland' for nothing, I heard they deported so many passengers for minor problems thats the reason Delta stopped their pacific flights.


User currently offlinePaddy From Taiwan, joined Jul 2003, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3786 times:

N754pr: yeah, I remember that scandal. I always wondered how much of it was that and how much of it was because of profitability. If the deporting thing was the major reason, what a preventable and embarrassing shame.

User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3698 times:

Sure hope so...getting those flights back sure would help improve the Oregon economy. I did hear that the new guv, Ted Kulongoski, took a trip to the far east to drum up business, and discussed restoring the flights at the same time. I think ANA would be the frontrunner right now, with either 763 or 777 aircraft running it.

One of the several reasons why Delta decided to pull out was that United was not only beating them by running pax via SEA on #875, but they had huge Asian populations going to NRT via SFO as well. In fact, when Shuttle by United was in place, lots of those flights were nearly all Japanese passengers, and UAL had to put a f/a with language capability on them. I worked for UA in PDX the summer of '95, and remember those huge hard-shell suitcases they'd use.

Back to the subject...PDX has always had a tough time attracting and keeping international routes, mainly due to a.) proximity to YVR and SEA b.) low cost flights to SFO and LAX, and c.) not a big enough base to make it profitable and sustainable in the long run. UA ran it for 4 years with 742's.
As was pointed out, the immigration scandal burned PDX badly in the Asian countries, many passsengers vowing never to fly into PDX and deal with customs. The director who was responsible has since retired, but I had heard that it's now TSA and customs that are running things to the letter. As a result, LH has had a hell of a time with bringing tools in, etc. and one LH supervisor was suspended for two weeks by a TSA employee on a powertrip.

So....it may happen, but then that airline may end up pulling out a few years after due to profitibaility reasons. One ray of hope, though: a lot of companies based in CA are leaving due to the current crisis there, and may opt to relocate to OR or WA, so the demand for a PDX-NRT/SEL/HKG/PWM route may increase over the next year or so.


User currently offlineN949WP From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2000, 1437 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3652 times:

".....LH has had a hell of a time with bringing tools in, etc. and one LH supervisor was suspended for two weeks by a TSA employee on a powertrip......

If this persists, could we start the countdown to LH's withdrawal?


User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3571 times:

N949WP: Quite possibly! Germans by nature are very direct and straight-forward, and from what I heard from my Dad (who was a mechanic for UA at PDX) the LH staff and TSA/Customs have had lots of misunderstandings, problems, etc. on relatively trivial things. Lots of "prima donnas" running PDX...LH had a 747 there (before the nonstop began, it started in SFO) at one of the UA widebody gates (E5 I think) due to a passsenger sickness. One of the clowns from the Port of Portland yelled at United saying the tail was in the way of an active roadway on the ramp, and said the plane had to be moved! Can you believe that? Know how much UA pays to have a widebody gate? Classic example of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

The more things change at PDX when it comes to international flying, the more they stay the same. The only reason it's there is because local businesses got a good price on blocks of tickets. If that doesn't get renewed, then lots of those business won't buy them again, and then start the countdown. I would be amazed if LH is still running PDX-FRA 5 years from now. Who knows on Mexicana...perhaps the same thing?


User currently offlineKwbl From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 444 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3528 times:

IF the problem at PDX is the TSA, is that not a federal problem? Are the TSA not federal workers? Why would the TSA at PDX be trained / react any differently than at SFO, LAX, SEA etc. BTW, the businesses did not get a good price on blocks of tickets. They promised to buy (and FLY) LH for all of their Europe business travel needs and they promised business class tickets. The great air fares (which I took advantage of) were LH's introductory fares to help establish the route (this is a common proceedure). I think the port has worked so hard and made so many concessions to LH that if this is really a problem, the port will deal with it swiftly. Surely LH knew about the prior incidents and if they felt this was jeopardizing their business, they would let PDX know. From everything I have seen and read, LH is very happy with the flights and have had an unexpected bonus in the amount of cargo their flights are carrying. I am not saying that LH is will be here forever. The community has to demonstrate that it will continue to use the service once the novelty has worn off. As for the original question on this thread, I am sure PAX service to Asia will return in the not too distant future if LH continues to be successful.

User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3466 times:

Kwbl: Yes...it IS a federal problem, you're right. TSA of course is very new and experience a lot of growing pains, and it seems to be an airport-by-airport situation. Here in SEA, there have been nightmarish problems with security, and I'm sure there are other horror stories nationwide. They've hired a lot of people that worked for private firms, so I think it will take a while for TSA to root out the rotten apples. Some folks are better at their jobs than others, some take advantage of the position they're in, like was probably the case with the TSA employee and the supervisor at LH. Specifically to PDX, there has been a lot of problems with customs in the past few years, and combined with TSA, there has been a lot of "behind the scenes" turbulence. I'm sure you're quite right about LH doing their homework on PDX's past troubles, and I'd say there's probably been a lot of improvement since the days of incoming pax on DL were being strip-searched.

How is the service on that PDX-FRA?


User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3473 times:

Kwbl: Yes...it IS a federal problem, you're right. TSA of course is very new and experience a lot of growing pains, and it seems to be an airport-by-airport situation. Here in SEA, there have been nightmarish problems with security, and I'm sure there are other horror stories nationwide. They've hired a lot of people that worked for private firms, so I think it will take a while for TSA to root out the rotten apples. Some folks are better at their jobs than others, some take advantage of the position they're in, like was probably the case with the TSA employee and the supervisor at LH. Specifically to PDX, there has been a lot of problems with customs in the past few years, and combined with TSA, there has been a lot of "behind the scenes" turbulence. I'm sure you're quite right about LH doing their homework on PDX's past troubles, and I'd say there's probably been a lot of improvement since the days of incoming pax on DL were being strip-searched.



User currently offlineKwbl From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 444 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3403 times:

The service on LH was very good. The n/s route saves about 3 to 4 hours in each direction.

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