Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
ProAir & ValuJet Travels  
User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1700 times:

Has anyone here flown ValuJet or Pro Air. What about safety? I think both were unsafe. What about service, food, on-time records, seats?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Richard Chase
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael F. McLaughlin



P.S. There's a lesson to be learned here: don't paint cartoons on your planes!

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineA340Spotter From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1979 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1661 times:

This will come off as biased, but Pro Air was not an unsafe airline. We had to bend over backwards for the feds because of the ValuJet Everglades incident so everything that was done from start-up to shutdown was highly scrutinized by them.
The reasons that were given for the shutdown in Sept. 2000 were eventually overturned by the national FAA and someday, the true reason for the shutdown will be made public, but a lot of us still work in the industry and can't comment on it.
As for the seats, our original 737-400s had 8 first class leather seats and the coach seats had a pitch of 33 inches if I remember correctly. We had quite a lot of good comments on that part of our operation.
On-time performance was a bit of a problem, I'd admit. I think we ran in the 65-70% area. A lot had to do with the routes we flew, DET-EWR/LGA and DET-BWI were always hampered in the afternoon by CLE ATC. Getting into the overhead stream of traffic generally cost us on average of 30 minutes and right there, you're out of the 14 minute DOT range.

Hope that answers your question a bit.

JSD




"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1653 times:

There was nothing wrong with ProAir -- except they choose to compete with NW, who played it ugly and ProAir lost...

ValuJet lives on today as AirTran...


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1633 times:

ProAir was just a little too ambitious. They tried to do too much flying with so small of a fleet.

User currently offlineJpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4375 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1636 times:

Yeah, look at all the airlines that have tried to fly in to DTW and MSP, only to be driven out my NW, who in turn raises the fares back up. Southwest has a small DTW presence, and does not even fly to MSP. That says a lot. There are few things in the airline industry i would like to see more than someone like Jetblue or Frontier develop a presence in detroit or minneapolis.


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1617 times:

DTW is #1 and MSP #3 in the country for "hub premiums."

User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1614 times:

A340Spotter, I'm sure you know better than me, but I found this from Freep (Detroit Free Press)

For four days a Pro Air jet flew with a broken emergency handle.

In July a pilot collided with a service truck in Orlando.

On July 15 the FAA found that seat cushions in emergency exits were not approved.

Pro Air lubricated an engine 138 hours late.

There is more on freep.com.


User currently offlineM717 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 608 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1598 times:

These airlines no longer operate. Discussing the merits of these companies, or their alleged safety and service records accomplishes what, exactly? What is the significance that "In July (of what year?..,2000??...) a (ProAir) pilot collided with a service truck in Orlando"?

User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1592 times:

No, I wanted to know how Pro Air and ValuJet's service levels were. Guess what? Absolutely nothing on this site accomplishes much. Color schemes, seat comfort, and food of an airline matters little.

User currently offlineM717 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 608 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1572 times:

Well, that may be, but citing 4 specific alleged safety issues with ProAir has very little to do with their service level.

Stick around this forum for a while, and you'd be amazed at just how much color schemes, seat comfort, and airline food (and even the most insignificant minutiae you could possibly dream up) matters to some people on this board.  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineWMUPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1517 times:

A little known fact....ATA was in talks with Valujet to buy them out at the time of the Everglades accident and the "scandel" that followed forced ATA to rethink and pull out of talks.

Now where do you think Airtran and ATA would be today had that accident not happened?



JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
User currently offlineA340Spotter From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1979 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1497 times:

Aa757first, et al,

To answer a bit of your notes:

--For four days a Pro Air jet flew with a broken emergency handle.

Seem to remember this was the little plastic handle that a flight attendant uses for leverage, not the swing bar on a 737 emergency door. Believe this was struck off (as were 58 of the 59 allegations that the Feds shut us down over) as it was a CDL item, not an MEL.

--In July a pilot collided with a service truck in Orlando.

Remembered this one as it was on my last day of work! Chief pilot at the controls, Fed in the jumpseat, and the collision was with an ATA can loader. Reason for the collision, no wing walkers.

On July 15 the FAA found that seat cushions in emergency exits were not approved.

--If I remember correctly, plane in question had flown in service from it's delivery from Boeing, where it was approved and certified, until that day where the folks in charge decided that the cushions were all of the sudden unapproved.

Look, in 3.5 years of flying, we operated 5 planes total. After returning N360PR, we obtained two ex Air Europa 737-300s as the lease rates were basically the same as the new 737-300 we returned. One airplane took a long time to get certified whereas the other one never was due to the seat configuration and the inability to come up with nearly a million dollars to have an STC to get it properly configured (it was something about the seat flooring from what we were told). A week after giving that plane back to the lessor, it's in service with Frontier. If you're not dealt a fair hand to play with, you can't make it in the this industry. Period.

JSD



"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AirTran & Valujet posted Fri Feb 4 2000 23:56:53 by Flying_727
Ocean Air & Avianca posted Tue Dec 19 2006 21:19:49 by El Al 001
B6 & Aruba posted Tue Dec 19 2006 20:41:30 by JFK69
AeroMexico's Downsizing & Consolidation posted Sun Dec 17 2006 05:14:28 by MXComet4C
AA & LAN Routes MIA-SCL Questions... posted Sat Dec 16 2006 20:14:49 by TUNisia
BA & America West Baggage Interline? posted Sat Dec 16 2006 02:07:38 by Parisien
BA Gatwick - Algiers & Hassi Messaoud Flights. posted Wed Dec 13 2006 19:48:59 by 8herveg
Boeing & Air France Relationship Now Even Tighter posted Wed Dec 13 2006 18:15:04 by DIA
ONEWorld BA AA & Mileage Rules Trans Atlantic posted Mon Dec 11 2006 02:24:56 by 707437
Bushfires & Effect Of Airliners. posted Mon Dec 11 2006 02:23:01 by Bakestar