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Mirabel, What's Happening?  
User currently offlineThomacf From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 542 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2088 times:

What's the status of this airport? Last I heard Air Transat is the only passenger airline flying there and they are moving to Dorval. Are they going to close it or promote it in the future? During what years was the airport at its peak in terms of airlines, routes and number of passengers. What airlines flew there and what were their routes? Mirabel looks like such a waste of potential.

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSafeFlyer From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 627 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2042 times:

To answer your questions, no Air Transat is not the only passenger airline flying into YMX, Corsair ans Skyservice also fly there. The terminal building is schedule to close in April 2004 and all flights are gonna be moved to Dorval. Probably going to be tranformed into a warehouse or a cargo terminal.

YMX saw major european and many Canadian charter and scheduled airlines until 1997 I believe where the decision was taken to move schedule flights to YUL and eventually move all flights into YUL. AC, Nationair, Wardair, Canada 3000, Air Club, BA, AF, KLM... all notably operated to YMX.

As for your saying, "Mirabel looks like such a waste of potential", well, some members of this site will tell you no, but I will say you're right. The problem is, YMX is some 40 km away from downtown with no efficient transportation mode and durind trafic time, you're jammed with no other transportation other than car or bus. And with no real government interest in building for instance a rapid train to downtown that connects with the wonderful subway system Mtl has, YMX is condemned to failure. They have already invested too much in Dorval now to change their minds. Maybe in 20 years, everything will have to be moved back to YMX. Only time will tell.

Regards, SafeFlyer



User currently offlinePilottim747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2027 times:

Looks like Mirabel will pretty much just be for cargo now. I've been watching the flight trackers for flights into YMX, but not too interesting. I guess Corsair still flies into YMX but that's about it. The airport is just too far out compared to Dorval (YUL).

pilottim747




Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
User currently offlineMark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2004 times:

What's the status of this airport?

It's supposed to be shut down for (charter) passenger traffic, around next Spring or so.

Last I heard Air Transat is the only passenger airline flying there and they are moving to Dorval.

Not the only one , but still the main one still there:

http://www.admtl.com/cgi-bin/fids_adm.cgi?LG=FR&airport=YMX&TYP=DEP

They are supposed to move to Dorval but I understand they're trying to secure some hangar space first. So maybe there'll be a short delay before they start flying from there.


Are they going to close it or promote it in the future?

Still used for cargo -- not a lot, few hundred thousand tonnes a year-- and Bombardier now has some RJ production facilities there so presumably the runways won't be allowed to be fall into too much disrepair. Negotiations are still ongoing about what exactly to do with the terminal (actually I read about a month ago that Steven Spielberg was there, shooting some kind of airport movie). The Parkade seems to be in some demand, from interested parties.


Long term --like twenty years from now -- I hope there'll be the kind of road and rail infrastructure to Mirabel in place that should've been there from Day 1. And that it'll then become the main airport for Montreal.


During what years was the airport at its peak in terms of airlines, routes and number of passengers.

Peak was about ~1979 -1983 --before the announcement sank in that Transborder flights were in fact not going to be transferred there from Dorval, after all. Peak traffic was about 3 million passengers a year (the terminal still felt quite empty, the vast majority of the time in those days).


What airlines flew there and what were their routes?

Lots of airlines flew there -- Iberia, TAP, Aeroflot, LOT, Lufthansa. Mostly Transatlantics but there was Aerolineas Argentinas too. Some of the other Montreal guys have made comprehensive lists, I'll see if I can find one.

Mirabel looks like such a waste of potential.

Right now it does, yeah. But given all the pitched fights going on at places like O'Hare and LAX and Heathrow for more runways, I think Montreal has with Mirabel an airfield that a lot of big cities would give its eye-teeth for (the expropriation battles having long since already been waged). City's just not ready for it yet, and won't be for a while either.

Besides, several hundred millions of dollars are (finally) being pumped into Dorval. Which is starting to look and function quite well indeed -- even on Thursday nights which is the busiest for transatlantic departures.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1988 times:

Montreal is too small to support 2 airports. YMX could only have survived had YUL been closed.

The biggest mistake (after opening YMX in the first place) was not closing YUL when YMX opened.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineMilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2000 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1926 times:

What about the Expos? Maybe they can move Mirabel to SJU, just kidding. Montreal built a new airport and is closing it. What will they do with their stadium? No major league baseball team will return to Quebec for the foreseeable future.

User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1860 times:

Didn't Mirabel have Continental Express, I remember a CO EX a/c diverted and someone (waitress of the restauraunt) said it was because of a fire at YMX!
-UN



What now?
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4980 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1838 times:

Perhaps if MLB wasnt the most greedy, badly run league in North America, fans would have a a reason to go the game..... who cares about MLB, the Yankess pay $166mil to their players, and the Devils Rays under $30 mil.... this sport can go to hell.

Mirabel is a joke... will always be.

Mark


User currently offlineLymanm From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1807 times:

Montreal is a hockey city, the 'spos draw 2000-3000 per game. If there wasn't such a disparity between payrolls and every team were allowed to compete, maybe the Expos would do well and people would watch. But for now, who wants to watch a perpetual loser?

As for YMX, there are many threads on this topic. Do a search.



buhh bye
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4980 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1748 times:

Off topic, the Expos have averaged 11,500 in attendance so far this year.

Montreal is just used to winners. the Habs and the Als win (well the Habs won... at one point)..

Mirabel's current setup is inefficient for any complete transfer.

The current terminal is setup for international flights. Transfers are almost impossible, PTV's take you back and forth to planes which can severly hinder on-time performance of international airlines. Ground transporation is a joke, public transport is a joke etc.

Mark


User currently offlineCaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1637 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1704 times:

Montreal completed Mirabel at the height of a global oil crisis. It was decided all international (except US) traffic would use YMX (Mirabel) and all domestic (including US) would stay at YUL (Dorval). Air Traffic fell off due to the sudden drop in global air traffic. Connections were pretty much impossible except for 1 or 2 domestic flights to Toronto/Quebec City per day. Air Canada & CP Air were stuck having to operate split airport operations. The road and rail infrastructure needed to link it with YUL and downtown were never completed. Toronto became Canada's main hub. Federal regulators began opening up other Canadian cities and especially Toronto to foreign airlines. Montreal quickly fell into decline. Squabbles between Quebec & Ottawa made decisions to close Dorval or Mirabel very political and thus virtually impossible. Montrealers generally hated the distance to Mirabel but had a soft spot for it's modern facilities. Jump to the 1990s and an airport authority was created to run both facilities and hopefully make the politically charge decision to shut one of the airports. Alliance groups began forming as well as the Canada-US Open Skys Treaty so Air Canada & Bombardier started pressuring Federal authorities and the airport authority to refocus Montreal's air services at one Airport and their choice was Dorval. The decision was done but 20 years too late to have any major effect other than to start rebuilding Montreal's air traffic which was doing well up until 9/11. Traffic had been flat over the 20 years of YMX and in 1997 total passenger volume for Montreal combined was less than what it was in 1977 (or 78?) when YMX opened. Other competitor cities like Boston and Toronto saw their traffic levels skyrocket over the same period.

Long term: The ADM (Airport authority) says they will move back to Mirabel. Don't count on it they've already invested too much into Dorval for that ever to happen.

Cargo: It's basically going to become a cargo airport but I even give that little chance of succeeding. Cargo operations have never reached any significant level and with many combi aircraft a lot of freight still ends up at Dorval. It will likely all move back to YUL in the end. YYZ remains the center of Cargo operations in Eastern Canada.

Airlines who used YMX: Pretty much the same international crowd who are using YUL now except for new entrants (like Austrian & Egyptair) and many who left such as: Lan Chile (DC-10s & 767s to Lima), Varig (DC-10s to Rio & Sao Paulo), Aerolineas Argentinas (747s then A310s to Buenos Aires), SAS (DC-8s then DC-10s to Copenhagen), Finnair (DC-10s to Helsinki), Iberia (DC-8s then 747s & DC-10s to Madrid & Malaga), El Al (707s then 747s to Tel Aviv), Alitalia (DC-8s then 747s & DC-10s to Milan & Rome), Aeroflot (IL-62s to Moscow), Royal Jordanian (L-1011s & A310s to Amman), LOT (IL-62s and 767s to Warsaw), TAP Air Portugal (707s & 747s to Lisbon & Terciera), Aer Lingus (707s to Shannon & Dubin), Air India (747s to Delhi). There were other carriers as well (Bankrupt: Sabena, Swissair etc) along with many charter carriers (Nationair for instance) that came and went.

More or less a sad story and a perfect example to the world on how not to operate a city's airport system and a blueprint on how to misjudge the needs of a changing marketplace and do nothing about it.

Doug
PS: We have a National Baseball Team in Montreal??? (LOL)

[Edited 2003-08-07 20:39:38]

User currently offlineQuebecair727 From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1567 times:

Yyz717 wrote:

Montreal is too small to support 2 airports. YMX could only have survived had YUL been closed.

The biggest mistake (after opening YMX in the first place) was not closing YUL when YMX opened.



I say: I agree 100% with you on this one.


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