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Can We Compile A List Of 5th Freedom Flights?  
User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2074 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7742 times:

Just wondering if a list of 5th freedom flights might make an interesting, if
not potentially useful, thread. I am still kicking myself for not having tried
to book Air Namibia London - Heathrow to Frankfurt - Main 744 a few years back when it suited me
to a T, because I did not know it existed. It might be useful to some of us
one day if we could keep some flights in mind.

Perhaps I can start:

Varig:
London - Heathrow to Copenhagen - Kastrup 777


` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7377 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7712 times:
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MAN-JFK on PIA

David


User currently offlineBoeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7699 times:

SIN-FRA and EWR/ORD-BRU on SQ.


Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
User currently offlineIkarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7699 times:

Ryanair. Most of their flights.  Laugh out loud

www.airevents.de keeps track of the interesting ones available to Germanic nations (eg there's supposed to be Zurich-Gatwick on Air Seychelles etc.)


User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7686 times:
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KU LHR-JFK 777
AI LHR-JFK 744
ANZ LHR-LAX 744
UAL had LHR-BRU, don't know if they still operate this route.
SQ SIN-BRU-MAN




In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlinePzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1393 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7679 times:

From Mexico:

MEX-YVR in JL
MEX-PTY in LB
CUN-MIA in IB


We can also add:

GRU-EZE with a number of airlines: LH, AF, BA, LX
EZE-SCL with BA

Aerocontinente (PE) has a lot of 5th Freedom incluiding US

MIA-SDQ (PE)




Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
User currently offlineAussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7670 times:

Garuda , Thai and Emirates have fifth freedom rights through BNE/SYD/MEL en route to AKL. With Emirates just starting their route last week.

QF has AKL-LAX, NZ had SYD-LAX but dropped their flights back in APR 2003 due to poor loadings


User currently offlineWNfan From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7659 times:

Pardon my ignorance, but what does 5th Freedom mean?

User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7658 times:
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To add to that:
AI CDG-EWR 744 (originating in either BOM or DEL)
AI LHR-ORD 744
KU KWI-AMS-ORD A340



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineDtwintlflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7631 times:

obviously include all of the NW and UAL inter-Asian flights from NRT NGO KIX........NW also used to have a few from Seoul (BKK to name one)

User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7377 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7625 times:
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WNfan, put simply it means an airline from country X is able to pick up passengers (and freight?) from country Y to country Z (and I'm sure that airline has to be routing from country X to country Z and not Y-X-Z). Sorry for making it sound like an algebraic expression!

I didn't list SQ MAN-BRU as they're not currently operating 747s to MAN.

David


User currently offlineAussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7629 times:

5th freedom rights generally mean the ability for an airline to uplift paasengers not originating or terminating from their own port city

an example being Air New Zealand being able to carry passengers from Sydney to Los Angeles.

Great way to earn extra money I would say for the airlines, I guess that's why they are highly lucrative.


User currently offlineWNfan From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7608 times:

Thanks for clearing that up. I would like to fly Kuwait Airlines sometime, they have ORD-AMS for about USD325 return from September through May.

Pakistan Intl Airlines has twice-weekly ORD-Birmingham-Lahore, I think it's an A310. Does that count on this list?


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7594 times:

Guys: SQ does not fly anymore to BRU.

So forget about the MAN-BRU, and:

EWR/ORD-BRU on SQ.

That is a cargo flight of SQC.

Regards
Frederic


User currently offlineStyles From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7597 times:

Varig LAX NRT M11
Varig CDG AMS 772
Luxair MAN DUB ER4
TAP Air Portugal CPH ARN A319


User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7377 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7585 times:
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I'm not sure whether we can count European airlines flying between two different countries to the country they are based in as 5th Freedom flyers as Europe may be construed as a single aviation market.

David


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32776 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7588 times:

Miami's 5th Freedom routes

Iberia Airlines of Spain:
MIA-PTY
MIA-SAP-(SAL)*
MIA-SJO
MIA-MGA
MIA-GUA
MIA-CUN
*No 5th freedom to SAL. Passengers must have came from MAD.

LanChile:
MIA-SDQ (op. for LanDominicana)
MIA-PUJ (op. for LanPeru)
MIA-LIM (op. for LanPeru)
MIA-UIO-GYE-MIA (op. for LanEcuador)
MIA-BOG
MIA-CUN
MIA-CCS

Lloyd Aero Bolivanos:
MIA-MAO

Sol Air:
MIA-MGA
MIA-SAL

Martinair Holland:
MIA-SJO
MIA-SXM (subject to Gov't Approval)

LTU:
MIA-SJO (they have the rights, they are currently not using them)

Air France:
MIA-PAP

BWIA:
MIA-BGI

Dutch Caribbean Airlines:
MIA-PAP

Aero Continente:
MIA-GYE
MIA-PTY
MIA-SDQ
MIA-PAP (op. for Air d'Ayiti)

Aerolineas Argentinas is looking at adding a mini-hub in Miami, using MD80s with 5th freedom service initially to St. Marteen, Punta Cana, and Montreal.



a.
User currently offlineBoeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7553 times:

Regarding SQ, I meant to say AMS, not BRU, sorry.


Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7529 times:

HY JFK-BHX
BG JFK-BRU (I think)



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineDispatch From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7503 times:

Boeing 757/767,
SQ SIN - FRA does not belong on this list, but FRA - EWR probably does. Also, from AMS only to EWR, the AMS - ORD service was terminated.

Northwest Airlines AMS - BOM

Peter


User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1008 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7498 times:
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AMS-EWR on SQ
FRA-JFK on SQ
CDG-EWR on AI
LHR-JFK on AI
LHR-ORD on AI
BRU-JFK on BG
BHX-JFK on HY

DXB-EWR on EK
DXB-LHR on BG
DXB-LHR on BI

BOM-DXB on BG
BOM-DXB on CX
BKK-SIN on GA
BKK-SIN on IC
BKK-SIN on BG
BKK-SIN on TK
BKK-SIN on CX
DXB-DAC on IR
CMB-MLE on EK
SIN-JKT on AI
SIN-JKT on GF

...more to come later...


User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7479 times:

One I'm not sure about:
ET EWR-FCO



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineWunderk From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7443 times:


LA: AKL-SYD
MH: DXB-EWR

I find in East Asia, there are many airlines operating fifth freedom segments, for example the following routes from HKG:

GF HKG-BKK
EK HKG-BKK
ET HKG-BKK
AY HKG-BKK
UL HKG-BKK
CI HKG-CGK
CI HKG-SIN
GA HKG-SIN
QF HKG-SIN
NW HKG-NRT
AI HKG-KIX
EG HKG-TPE
SQ HKG-TPE
TG HKG-TPE
TG HKG-ICN

That's just a partial list...in fact, there are constantly a dozen airlines flying HKG-BKK alone. There were many others still operational until very recently, some of them stopped because of SARS (like SQ's HKG-LAS route). Remember these ones?

CI HKG-MNL (for a short while before the Philippines tore up its air agreement with Taiwan)
CA HKG-LHR (for a very brief period)
CP HKG-BKK
UA HKG-SIN (resumed?)
LX HKG-MNL (still valid?)
BA HKG-MNL
SR HKG-SEL (when they had the 747-300s)
AF HKG-MNL
SQ HKG-SFO (resumed?)
LH HKG-OSA (before it became ITM and replaced by KIX for international flights)

CX itself has 5th freedom on many flights between Taiwan and Japan:
TPE-KIX
TPE-NRT
TPE-FUK
TPE-NGO

In 1992, when South Korea broke ties with Taiwan and both countries cancelled their air agreement, CI, BR, OZ and KE all had to stop flying between the two neighbours. Those carriers with 5th freedom all of a sudden became the only ones serving TPE-SEL. (CX, SQ, TG, and CO were the prominent ones). Only very recently did Taiwan and South Korea resumed their own flights, but only at a charter level.

OK, I'm getting off topic, I'd better sign off.



User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7404 times:
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NW Interport Flights-
NRT-BKK, NGO-MNL
NRT-ICN, KIX-TPE
NRT-HKG, NRT-PUS
NRT-MNL, NRT-NGO(Oct/03)
NRT-PEK
NRT-PVG
NRT-TPE
NRT-SIN
NRT-GUM
NRT-SPN



Made from jets!
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7379 times:

The current Air India 5th freedoms in use are :

London LHR to New York JFK vv
London LHR to Chicago ORD vv
Paris CDG to Newark EWR vv
Singapore SIN to Jakarta CGK vv
Singapore SIN to Kuala Lumpur KUL vv
Bangkok BKK to Tokyo NRT vv
Hong Kong HKG to Osaka KIX vv
Doha DOH to Bahrain BAH vv
Abu Dhabi AUH to Muscat MCT vv


25 Godbless : FRA-MAD on LA FRA-LHR on SW (not served at the moment but will be replaced by FRA-LGW) FRA-JFK on SQ FRA-SFO or LAX on AI (to be installed) SIN-CGK on
26 Planemannyc : SIN-HKG on CI PEK-NRT on PK PEK-NRT on UA NRT-HKG on UA NRT-TPE on UA NRT-SIN on UA NRT-BKK on UA BKK-NRT on BG NRT-BKK on NW NRT-HKG on NW NRT-MNL on
27 Boeing757/767 : Boy, I goofed again with SQ. I meant JFK-FRA. Duh!
28 Vimanav : Some of the other 5th freedom rights from India are: BG - BOM DXB vv KB - CCU BKK vv / DEL KTM vv CX - BOM DXB vv/ BOM BKKvv ET - BOM BKK vv BI - CCU
29 B747-437B : Does AI not enjoy traffic rights between Nairobi and Dar-es-salam on those services? Nope. The loads to DAR are piss poor anyway. They run the NBO-DAR
30 Sk945 : I'll add one more for BKK: SAS BKK-SIN
31 MAH4546 : American Airlines 5th Freedom routes: Buenos Aires-Montevideo rtn. Sao Paulo-Asuncion rtn. Bridgetown-Canouan rtn. Santo Domingo-St. Maarten rtn. (sea
32 Okko : first post on this forum. AY BKK-SIN AY BKK-HKG but yep, the daily HEL-BKK has definitely excellent loads but from what I´ve seen flying BKK-SIN on A
33 Voodoo : Is Air Jamaica still flying London-Heathrow to Havana?
34 9V-SVE : SQ's current fifth freedom routes - HKG-SFO-HKG TPE-LAX-TPE NRT-LAX-NRT ICN-YVR-ICN ICN-SFO-ICN BKK-ICN-BKK BKK-KIX-BKK FRA-JFK-FRA AMS-EWR-AMS ZRH-MA
35 Chrisa330 : Air Canada: HNL-SYD Thai: KIX-LAX NRT-LAX Cathay Pacific: JFK-YVR[Edited 2003-08-15 16:10:38]
36 Dispatch : Seems like it is too bad aircraft like 747-400(ER), 777ER and A340-313X/500/600 are now used by the airlines. Were it not for the long range of those
37 WorldTraveler : DL CDG-BOM All of the PA/DL FRA hub was built on 5th freedom routes. UA still holds 5th freedom rights beyond LHR and in South America which are not b
38 Pzurita1 : EZE-CPT (SA) EZE-JNB (SA) So, who is setting all this flights in a clean list???? PZ
39 FLYSSC : Sorry "Pzurita1", but AF doesn't operate on GRU-EZE or GRU-SCL AF Flights from CDG to EZE, GRU, GIG are daily, nonstop. The flight AF416 to EZE contin
40 FLYSSC : Iran Air used to fly from Paris-ORY to GVA on its way to THR (747SP or A30-600 ). Kuwait Airways and Saudia between Paris-CDG and FCO, on their way to
41 Clipper471 : UA still holds 5th freedom rights beyond LHR The UAL LHR routes inherited from PAA are not fifth freedom. As I recall, Pan Am could not pick up "local
42 Manni : How about the Africa destinations served by SN Brussels Airlines? Nearly all, if not all, Africa flights leaving BRU are bound for 2 destinations in A
43 Patroni : >>5th freedom rights generally mean the ability for an airline to uplift paasengers not originating or terminating from their own port city
44 Armcom : Voodoo, Air Jamaica does operate LHR-HAV-KIN twice a week, on Sundays and Mondays with 5th freedom rights.
45 AM744 : TACA MEX-LAX F i l l e r
46 OverseasBHX : EK DAC-KUL KUL-JKT CMB-JKT CMB-SIN CMB-MLE SIN-JKT SIN-MEL SIN-SYD BKK-HKG Do the EK flights AUH-BEY and AUH-AMM count as fifth-freedom?? And just a n
47 OverseasBHX : OK DXB-CMB AUH-CMB AAN-CMB
48 Trickijedi : I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before but throw LH MNL-BKK on the list.
49 AlitaliaORD : Lacsa (Taca) ORD-Guatemala-Costa Rica
50 DALinATL : Not sure if it was listed yet JFK-DKR on South African
51 AlitaliaORD : Thai: MAD-FCO (then BKK)
52 Aio86 : Remember the JAL flights YVR-MEX and JFK-GRU Lauda flies from KUL-SYD and KUL-MEL Likewise, BA has SIN-LHR What about all the Qantas flights from Aust
53 Vfw614 : Although intra EU-flights, still worth mentioning: Luxair: BGY-ATH, MAN-DUB, SCN-MUC Denim Airways: AGB-DUS VLM Airlines: MAN-LCY JER-LCY JER-ZRH Air
54 Okko : how about Adria Airways flying VIE-FRA? I think that's pretty strange as I recall they code-share on that route with LH. Also keeping in mind that thi
55 AMS : also Thai Airways MAD-FCO on a 744 old classics were AR AMS-CDG-MAD JL AMS-ZRH UL AMS-CDG SQ AMS-FCO and AMS-CPH and AMS-MAN RG AMS-FRA TR AMS-LGW SA
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