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A330-300 Range  
User currently offlineJfazzer From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 157 posts, RR: 8
Posted (10 years 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 4429 times:

Last year I flew to Orlando Sanford from Manchester (UK), with My Travel airways.
I was lucky enough to travel on the A330-300 that they leased from Skyservice (C-FBUS) which had loads more legroom.
However, we had to make a scheduled tech-stop at Bangor Maine for fuel. As U.S air regularly operate the A330-300 to Europe and Northwest will be doing so in the very near future I was wondering why our aircraft didn't have the required range for the journey but these aircraft seem to.
Obviously the 200 series doesn’t have this problem so despite it's lower capacity would this not of been a better choice for the two American airlines??
Any Info?
Cheers.


18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 4352 times:

I know that Florida flights to Europe are significantly longer to Europe than flights from the northeastern and the midwestern part of the US. I do not know where US Airways flies from (Pittsburgh?), but I would guess that NWA will fly theirs from Detroit and Minneapolis. Both of these places are closer to Europe than Florida.

I have flown on SWISS from ZRH-MIA and it is about a 10-10.5 hour flight. That might simply be too much for the A-333 (with a full load of pax/cargo), though for the A-332 it is no problem.

All just speculation though. Cannot tell you exactly.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineAp305 From India, joined Jan 2000, 512 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 4264 times:

The skyservice a330-300 might be a lower mtow version depending on the year it was built. The 230ton(now 233 i think)mtow option was introduced only a few years back(i think only after the 332 came into service).US air's 330s are most probably the 230ton versions.

Regards
ap305


User currently offlineSk945 From Sweden, joined May 2002, 432 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 7 hours ago) and read 4209 times:

SAS use the A333 between ARN to ORD. Fligth time 9 hours.

User currently offlineBAGSMASHER From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 7 hours ago) and read 4193 times:

NW did order A-330-200s. They will begin to arrive summer 2004 and will be used on routes that are flown by 747-200s now and some longer DC-10 flying.

User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 4123 times:
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As charter aircraft Skyservice's A330-300s will seat significantly more than those operated by scheduled airlines with multi-class cabins. The increased payload to be carried, coupled with the fact that they are early build ex-LTU aircraft not certified to the higher MTOWs, limits their range.

Both US Airways and Northwest A330s are A330-300X aircraft, with the highest MTOW available to strech their range.

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7403 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 4085 times:
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If the A330-300 has to make fuel stops, it would still save NW signifcantly over the DC10, even though the DC10 has better range capability.


Made from jets!
User currently offlineSpyderz From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 4021 times:

Well for this winter Air Canada plans to utilise their A330-300 aircraft on some pretty long routes from Western Canada such as YVR-LHR, YYC-LHR, and YYC-FRA. This will be the first time Air Canada will be using these planes on these long routes.

User currently offlineBa319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8467 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 3976 times:
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The Skyservice A330-300's are early models without additional (ER) fuel tank capacity.

SAS,Air Canada,Northwest and US Airways all operate the IGW -300X version,hence the 'non-stop' ability.

Rgds

Mark



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333,342
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 3946 times:

The A330-323X's that NW ordered will have no range problems on their route structure.

A lot of older A330s were a tad underpowered.

N


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3802 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 3930 times:

Here are some empirical observations about A330-300 range: Two of the longest trans-Atlantic scheduled routes operated regularly by 333s are DUB-ORD (EI) and FRA-YYZ (AC) at 3,669 miles and 3,945 miles, respectively. EI uses only A330-200s on its DUB-LAX route (5,182 miles), having stated that the distance is beyond the range of their -300s. MAN-Orlando/Sanford is 4,233 miles. Thus, it would seem that the realistic maximum range of a 333 at full payload is about 4,000 miles, and less than 5,000 miles.

As noted by Ap305, the 333s of Skyservice are some of the earliest (lower MTOW) of the type delivered, which may explain the reason for the fuel stop at Bangor on the MAN-Sanford flight. Stronger than usual headwinds may also be the reason -- on a FRA-DTW non-stop flight in the recent past, due to headwinds we were more than one hour late in arriving at DTW even though we pushed back on time at FRA and were climbing out within 20 minutes.


User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 3878 times:

I've talked to US Airways A330 crews, and they claim that west bound FCO-PHL leg is about pushing the range limit on the 333. Depending on winds aloft, of course.

User currently offlineJfazzer From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 157 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3724 times:

Thanks to everyone for their comments and help.

Regards................Jfazzer


User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

The A330-200 has an additional fuel tank:

Fuel Capacities:
A330-300: 98 m³
A330-200: 137 m³

Therefore the design range is almost 20% more; The -300 is rather a medium range plane, while the -200 is a longhauler, as opposed to the A340-ultra-long-haulers.

SailorOrion


User currently offlineMD-11 forever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3549 times:

"The A330-200 has an additional fuel tank:

Fuel Capacities:
A330-300: 98 m³
A330-200: 137 m³

Therefore the design range is almost 20% more; The -300 is rather a medium range plane, while the -200 is a longhauler, as opposed to the A340-ultra-long-haulers."

As far as I know, the A332 is not able to use the full fuel capacity without payload restriction. Once a pilot complained that they (SR that time) bought an aircraft with those additional tanks and range but they are not using them and even if they would use them, they couldn't load the full payload anymore........

Cheers, Thomas


User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3427 times:

MD-11 forever:
Few aircraft I know (quite a few) can use the full fuel capacity when flying with full payload. Check the payload/range diagrams, you will find three limits (three different straight lines).

1) maximum structural payload (the horizontal line).
2) maximum takeoff mass
3) fuel capacity mass (not always found)

Exsample:
747-400ER:
maximum fuel capacity: 193 tons
usable fuel @ max payload: 161 tons

777-200LR:
maximum fuel capacity: 162 tons
usable fuel @ max payload: 131 tons

MD11:
maximum fuel capacity: 126 tons
usable fuel @ max payload: 99 tons

717-200:
maximum fuel capacity: 11 tons
usable fuel @ max payload: 9,5 tons

SailorOrion


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3312 times:

the A332 is not able to use the full fuel capacity without payload restriction.

...same applies to many other longhaul airliners, so why the big deal over this one?


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3285 times:

EI's 333s are also of the -301 variety... they produce a paltry 64,000 lbs thrust/engine and would certainly have issues with DUB-LAX.

Northwest or US's -323X frames might also have just a bit of trouble, but Air Canada or Cathay could likely fly DUB-LAX and FCO-PHL with one of their -343Xs.

It'll be interesting to see the capabilities of QR's new -303Xs. They'll be the first operator of that particular variant.

N


User currently offlineMD-11 forever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3216 times:

"...same applies to many other longhaul airliners, so why the big deal over this one?"

There's no big deal on this one, just the fact, that on the A332 in Swissair configuration, the center tank was hardly ever used........

Cheers, Thomas


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