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If Air Canada Goes Down?  
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3355 posts, RR: 9
Posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6494 times:

Everyone already knows that AC is basically the only major airline in Canada and is not doing great. I cannot see the airline going under because of this, but what would happen to aviation in Canada if AC does go under and liquidates? What airline would take over the routes for AC if this happened or would a new airline form using the planes. I would like to hear what people would think will happen regarding these questions?


Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
113 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSpotterboy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6465 times:

I think quite a few airlines would love to continue AC's major international and domestic routes... an amount of traffic will be there if there's no Air Canada anymore. I also know people who are flying AMS-YYZ not on AC - they're flying AMS-MSP-YYZ on Northwest...  Big thumbs up So US hubs would be also lucky because a lot of passengers would choose a route with stopover at a major US Airport when going to Canada... That would be better times for BOS, ORD, DTW, MSP, SEA ,....  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

But after all that - I really hope Air Canada will not go down!


User currently offlinePaddy From Taiwan, joined Jul 2003, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6435 times:

Wouldn't/couldn't the Canadian government bail them out? It would be a massive blow to civic pride if AC went under. Imagine if UA or AA was the last major US international carrier right now....

User currently offlineScarletHarlot From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 4673 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6407 times:

It won't happen. The government would bail AC out before they let them shut down. Us Canadians already have a pretty good inferiority complex - imagine how bad it would be if we can't even keep Air Canada going!


But that was when I ruled the world
User currently offlineSpyderz From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6402 times:

Air Canada will not ceast to exist. It may shrink to being a international-only airline or it may be re-transformed into another airline like SN Brussels or Swiss came from the ashes of Sabena and Swissair. Foreign airline flying to Canada will help pick-up the slack if the transition takes long (i.e. British Airways increases frequencies and uses larger aircraft) and the current domestic airlines like Westjet and Jetsgo will aquire extra aircraftto fill the domestic demand. New entries into the scene will definately occur since a void will be there. There would be great turmoil in the immediate future, yet in the long-run, Canadians will not notice any great decrease in air service. This is rather hypothetical, but I wonder if Westjet has a contingency plan in place if such a situation were to occur?

User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3355 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6390 times:

The government can and have given AC quite a bit in the past. But nothing since 9/11 and when they filed for Ch.11 on April 1st. I have heard if AC received the bailout's that UA and AA are getting from the US government they wouldn't be in as much trouble.

I also know people who are flying AMS-YYZ not on AC - they're flying AMS-MSP-YYZ on Northwest...

pax going AMS-YYZ probably mainly fly on KLM, not NWA or AC



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlinePlanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6319 times:

I agree that we may look at a Swissair or Sabena situation.

A holding company would be created to buy the leftover assets of a liquidated Air Canada and a new carrier would be formed. It probably would still retain the Air Canada name and logo, but would be reinvented everywhere else: rationalize fleet and reduce the number of aircraft types, elimate all nonprofitable routes, and start from the ground up in redesigning a new inflight product. It could be a really good opportunity for AC to improve its services quite a bit.




User currently offlineCaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1637 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6218 times:

I doubt the government would let Air Canada collapse as well. They were weak when Canadian Airlines was around. The battle with CP weakened them more. The government threw restrictions on them after winning that battle. 9/11 stunned them as did the Iraqi war, then came SARS and now the big blackout of 2003... Now they file for bankruptcy and blame everyone and everything except their own management skills... None of this is a pretty picture and a lot of it is a result of bad decisions and bad luck.

All this being said Air Transat, Skyservice, Westjet, Jetsgo & Canjet would argue strongly against a bail out and would probably love to take parts of the Air Canada network.. The people in Canada have a love hate relationship with Air Canada.. they are both proud of them and know they can be the biggest pain at the same time. Customer service is anything but stellar but yet they do provide an excellent route network and safe flying in relatively comfortable modern aircraft. Shut down Toronto with a snowstorm and you'll see blood pressure rising in passengers across the country. You haven't experienced Canada until you've had your intelligence insulted by an Air Canada agent.. My guess is most people would oppose a bail out but the numbers would be pretty evenly split, maybe something line 60/40 against.

I'd just like them to take responsibility for their bad management moves and correct the situation at the top. Make the proper moves to get the airline back into financial shape. Retrain their employees in customer relations. Decentralized the Toronto operation and split more of it among Vancouver and Montreal. Lastly focus on what they do best and stick to it and stop trying to be all things to all people.


User currently offlineSIN747 From Singapore, joined Aug 2003, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6140 times:

It is pretty straightforward, all US majors (except Southwest) would today be in Ch. 11, or perhaps 7 if it were not for the govt. money. If AC had received proportional support (about $1bil. so far) they too wouldn't have filed.

User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6047 times:

I don't understand how anyone would want the government to pay taxpayers money to an airline that can't manage itself. Air Canada has been loosing billions of dollars over the years, and they weren't doing anything to stop it. As a taxpayer, I don't want to see my money funding a greedy airline that can't run itself properly.

It is pretty straightforward, all US majors (except Southwest) would today be in Ch. 11, or perhaps 7 if it were not for the govt. money. If AC had received proportional support (about $1bil. so far) they too wouldn't have filed.

You're right, they probably wouldn't be under bankruptcy protection, they'd have kept doing what they were doing until they burned away the money that the government gave them.

I DO NOT want Air Canada to recieve help from the government. Most of the people involved in the aviation industry here in Canada will agree with me. If they can't get their sh*t together even under bankruptcy protection, they don't deserve to be "Canada's Airline". They're a pretty sad flag carrier if you ask me.



EH.
User currently offlineAMS From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1691 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6007 times:

Spotterboy,

Martinair Holland and Air Transat and KLM also operate frequent flights from AMS-YYZ LB pearson INt airport.

Since many Dutch people immigrated to Canada, this is a heavey market!


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4756 posts, RR: 44
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5980 times:

CanadaEH : You are 100% correct, ever since C3 and CP went under, AC with all the monopoly has given the snobby image of having a big chip on their shoulders and taken up the bullying stance with the other local airlines.

If they cant do well under bankruptcy then so be it. They dont deserve a million and one chances.



User currently offlineHmmmm... From Canada, joined May 1999, 2104 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5905 times:

The Canadian government would give a trillion dollars to AC if they had it to give. Ottawa does not consider Air Canada to be a business. It considers it to be an institution. Even if there were only one passenger flying per day, AC would still be supported, the planes would still take-off.

In Canada, politics is everything while economics is something left for businessmen to worry about. That's the mentality of Canadian political leadership. Give money to those who have not, take money from those who have. To hell with the free market.

The fact that AC is a Quebec-based institution, further insulates them from the free market forces. What happens to AC will not be dictated by how many, or how few, passengers fly it. This Canadian institution is deemed immune from those forces.



An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5885 times:

If AC is liquidated, it will be a good day for the Cdn aviation industry.

AC is a govt-favoured entity that has squashed many competitors in the past. It's an inefficient operation that has destroyed $B in equity investment due to the strategic follies of the idiot CEO Robert Milton.

AC's latest quarterlies show that its operating margins are horrendous. If it does not liquidate, it will likely shrink itself to a small marginally profitable core business.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4971 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5828 times:

"The fact that AC is a Quebec-based institution, further insulates them from the free market forces"

-Beautiful statement. Air Canada is as much an Onterrible based institution as it is a Quebec one. As many would argue on this board, AC just has its legal name in Montreal, and the rest of its ops are in YYZ... no? That being said, the economic loss if AC goes down is MUCH greater in Toronto, than Montreal.

I love it how everytime there is an AC discussion, it is either that they are racist, prejudice, too Quebecois, too many flights to YUL .... c'mon get over it.

Mark


User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5801 times:

I would really like to see Canadian Airlines reborn again and take over if AC collapses.

My picks for new Canadian Airlines fleet:

717-200
737-700
767-200ER/300ER
757-200
777-200ER
747-400 Combi (maybe 2 or 3)

that's right....NO AIRBUSES!!!!


[Edited 2003-08-19 20:07:49]


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5744 times:

Computer Virus Cripples Air Canada Check-In Counters

MONTREAL (Reuters) - A computer virus crippled some Air Canada systems and created delays at check-in counters at Canadian airports, the airline said on Tuesday.

The virus, dubbed "White Hat," hit as the country's largest airline was still reeling from a worldwide shutdown of its operations last Friday, following the massive power blackout in Ontario and the U.S. Northeast.

Air Canada said the virus struck on Tuesday morning and also crippled its call centers.

"It's slowing things up," Air Canada spokeswoman Isabelle Arthur said, adding a fix was being installed by International Business Machines Corp.

The airline expected to resolve the problem before the end of the afternoon.

The virus had not attacked computer systems handling flight operations, Arthur said.

White Hat is what some people are calling a new worm that showed up on Monday, also dubbed "Welchia" or "Nachi," said Patrick Hinojosa, chief technology officer of anti-virus vendor Panda Software.

This new worm follows the worldwide spread of the "Blaster" virus last week, which crashed computers and spread to others and instructed them to launch an attack on one of Microsoft's Web sites.

Although the White Hat worm appeared to be written to clean up the Blaster worm and prevent future infections, anti-virus experts are opposed to the concept of good viruses because they intrude on someone else's computer system without their knowledge and can cause unintended consequences.

The White Hat worm is creating more network traffic, and thus a slowdown, for many corporations as it checks for other vulnerable computers to spread to and because it instructs numerous computers in a network to try to download the patch simultaneously, security experts said.

White hat is the term used for hackers who defend networks against "Black Hat" hackers, who try to attack them.





EH.
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4756 posts, RR: 44
Reply 17, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5677 times:

The new fleet of Air Canada should focus on either being all BOEING or all AIRBUS...however all BOEING seems very much unlikely unless they pull of something of the kind that US AIR did in the mid 90s by ordering A 320s in dozens by cancelling a new order of 100s B 737s. If they do this then it will look wierd as the costs of retraining will be enormous but it will help politically with USA!

If it is all Airbus fleet then it should be :

A 318
A 319
A 320
A 321 replacing B 767 on domestic and USA / Caribbean routes
A 332 replacing B 767 on Intl long haul and regional routes
A 333
A 343 replacing all remaining long haul 767 flights
A 346 replacing the 74Ms and 744s to Europe and Asia

However if it was all BOEING then I would propose :

B 717 for short haul Canadian and USA flights with low-steady demand
B 737-700 for medium-long haul regional/transcontinental flights
B 738 for higher density-demand regional flights
B 7E7 replacing all current B 767 flights
B 777-200ER or LR replacing all A 330 and A 340 flights
B 747-400 of CP...stick with them as their 400 seaters will come in handy during the peak summer and winter season where there is huge demand for seats to LHR, NRT, HKG, FRA and CDG etc.

B 747-400 combis can be gotten rid off or maybe kept as they provide the flexibility for generating extra cargo $$$ revenue.

If demand for Air Canada seats is not that much to support a 744 flight then get rid off all B 747-400s and get instead B 777-300ERs which can easily fly all the current AC 744 long haul routes such as YVR-HKG/NRT, YYZ-LHR/FRA, YUL-CDG/FRA etc etc.


User currently offlineBAGSMASHER From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5635 times:

If AC goes down, the world will be a better place!

User currently offlineCanadi>nBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5619 times:

"I DO NOT want Air Canada to recieve help from the government. Most of the people involved in the aviation industry here in Canada will agree with me. If they can't get their sh*t together even under bankruptcy protection, they don't deserve to be "Canada's Airline". They're a pretty sad flag carrier if you ask me."

Pretty well sums up how I feel re Air Canada. Incidentally, contrary to what some may think, Air Canada is NOT Canada's flag carrier; they are a private
corporation that still believes it is a crown carrier. I more or less attach those
sentiments to the CEO and executive board rather than the general employee group. There are many, many wonderful AC employees (and include ex Canadi>n, Wardair and PWA men and women among them), and they don't deserve what has become of their carrier. Robert Milton? Well, I could go on and on about that egotistical narcissist, but I digress.


User currently offlineBAGSMASHER From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5602 times:

Ever notice how the AC ticket counter personnel sit in chairs cause they're too lazy to stand for 8 hrs??

User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4971 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5531 times:

"Ever notice how the AC ticket counter personnel sit in chairs cause they're too lazy to stand for 8 hrs"

-Brilliant statement... you deserve a medal for this one.

Mark


User currently offlineSIN747 From Singapore, joined Aug 2003, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5484 times:

YYZ717: What does "destroy $b in equity investment" mean to those of us not as well versed in finances as you so obviously are?
Also, if we ignore that AC has financially outperformed all other major N.A. international carriers since 9/11 ( results were still terrible), even though the Canadian govt. didn't provide the support the US govt. did, (I also don't believe in govt. subsidies, but don't understand how a reasonable person could view this as being a level playing field under NAFTA), what are your great solutions to turning around all N.A. full -service int'l carriers, since the same applies to them as well? You are "the man" YYZ717, tell us how easy it is and why every single one of those big-boy CEO's is so stupid! How about you Canadi


User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5441 times:

SIN747.. There is absolutely no comparison to the US airlines vs. Canadian airlines. Air Canada has operated under a virtual monopoly for years while the US has had what, five or six full-service carriers and numerous low-cost carriers. There is NO comparison. You say Air Canada has out performed most North American carriers - dude, they're under bankruptcy protection. How well did they honestly out perform them?

You seem to lack any knowledge of the aviation industry in Canada, SIN747. I don't think Yyz717 was calling all big-boy CEO's stupid, just Robert Milton - and I agree. Robert Milton and his executive's have played a large part in putting Air Canada into bankruptcy protection. I suggest you read up on whats been going on in Canada's aviation industry in the past few years before you start replying with anymore of your BS.



EH.
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3355 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5428 times:

How many people on this thread actually like the Airline?


Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
25 FLYYUL : I like Air Canada.. they really are a superior airline in terms of in-flight product. I would know this, as I work for NW/CO, and flown them extensive
26 Chock head : They cant go quietly in the night like the Westerner's on this board will hope. Well thanks to the ultimate Air Canada apologist for that bit of flame
27 Post contains images StarAC17 : If anyone knows where is the carrier losing most of its money from service wise, is it their domestic network, international network, or US network. F
28 FLYYUL : Ok chock head... How much of your tax payer's dollars go to AC? None.. in fact, the largest owner of AC is the Caisse de Depot et placement du Quebec,
29 SIN747 : AC the "monopoly"?/Can't compare AC to US carriers/Stupid CEO's/dude US carriers not in bank. US carriers: NW at MSP,DTW, MEM, DL at ATL,CVG,SLC, CO a
30 Hmmmm... : "Beautiful statement. Air Canada is as much an Onterrible based institution as it is a Quebec one." Air Canada is based in Montreal for political reas
31 FLYYUL : Based in Montreal for political reasons, is pretty much your view. I asked this question to a few guys at AC, and AC could easily pack it up and move
32 Hmmmm... : Canadi>n. Air Canada is based in Montreal even though its main business is in Toronto and has been for a long, long time. Yet it stays over there. Why
33 StarAC17 : Have you considered that what you are saying can be disproven? I just did a fare comparison, and they match eachother. You may have chosen a flight on
34 Yyz717 : The Air Canada Act passed by parliament when AC was privatized stipulated that AC MUST remain YUL-based. Combined with the racist policy that all FA's
35 VS340 : I could care less if AC went under. After so much terrible service that I and so many others have received, and of course the awful upper management,
36 SIN747 : YYZ717 You've made some sweeping allegations (read : inaccurate comments) above and I'm still waiting for some answers...unless you don't have any!
37 CanadaEH : SIN747.. Q2 OVERVIEW - Operating revenues down $600 million or 24 per cent year over year, mainly due to SARS and the impact of the war in Iraq - Shor
38 Chock head : FLYYUL I never said that my tax dollars were going to Air Canada, I said there is the fear that they will be. However in a roundabout way my money is
39 StarAC17 : Factor in all the angry passengers over the past week who will never step foot on Air Canada again With all due respect I would say 90% of the time th
40 SIN747 : Over the years I must have heard the "I'll never fly them again because: seat pitch/food/delay/seat didn't recline/etc" a million times, but they do,
41 Fallingeese : Air Canada still managed to lose a small fortune in bankruptcy protection, and lets not forget their last quarter where they didn't pay the leases eit
42 Post contains images EmiratesA345 : ...then a lot of my friends fathers would be out of work. One of my friends mothers would also lose her job. EmiratesA345
43 SIN747 : FallenGeese Last 1/4 includes "restructuring charges"(non-cash) of +$300mil and DOES include all lease payments as if paid! Now lets see, the RICHEST,
44 Tango-Bravo : If Air Canada goes down, the most likely scenario IMO would probably be along the lines of Sabena/SN Brussels or Swissair/Swiss. Their route network w
45 Yyz717 : ...then a lot of my friends fathers would be out of work. One of my friends mothers would also lose her job. But they would be replaced by harder work
46 Jetdeltamsy : AC may evolve into a much smaller operation, but it will be decades before it is replaced as the national flag carrier of canada.
47 SIN747 : YYZ717 Come on, you've got to be able to do better than that, they can deal with AC and insist on a new CEO, but they're doing the opposite.
48 CanadaEH : StarAC17, I'm not talking about seat pitch here. If you've been locked in your room with no T.V. for the past week, you'd notice the chaos that has be
49 JAL : I doubt that the Liberal government would allow Air Canada to go down as it would leave's Canada without a national airline.
50 Yyz717 : Canada does not have a "national airline" any longer. AC is just another private sector carrier, no different than Westjet, Jetsgo etc. Of course AC c
51 Post contains links N79969 : They cannot seem to catch a break... http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/030819/airlines_aircanada_virus_3.html
52 Hmmmm... : Canadaeh, what you described is classic Air Canada. My mother has been a travel agent for 26 years and she has many times remarked that the Air Canada
53 Bmacleod : Fact is Canada is part of North America. The chief producer of airliners here is Boeing. Canada is NOT part of Europe where the chief producer is Airb
54 StarAC17 : CanadaEH, Your points are very true now how do we solve this problem of customer service with AC because I haven't got a clue how to improve service m
55 Dash8King : Fact is Canada is part of North America. The chief producer of airliners here is Boeing. Canada is NOT part of Europe where the chief producer is Airb
56 FLYYUL : Today, I read that Northwest got $209 million in the 2nd quarter due to SARS and the War... this money coming fromthe US govt. Doesnt AC compete in th
57 Yyz717 : Doesnt AC compete in the same markets? Why didnt they get money for SARS? AC has a 80% market share in Canada which means it drives the pricing, capac
58 Canadi>nBoy : You know, if it weren't for the thousands of great and loyal AC employees (and that includes ex-CP) whose collective livelihood depends on the surviva
59 CanadaEH : I think the deadline for restructuring is Sept 31, no? The job cuts have already started, and will continue on a gradual basis - we all know that they
60 Canadi>nBoy : Hmmm, yes, I knew, of course that some of the cuts had commenced. And I realized the union factor as soon as I posted my question. "Tick, Tick, Tick",
61 FLYYUL : "AC has a 80% market share in Canada which means it drives the pricing, capacity, and industry" -Very misleading numbers. On ALL lucrative markets out
62 Dash8King : C'Mon Neil... if this is about the fact tha AC is based in Montreal, then fine. But I know thatif AC was a YYZ based company, you'd be much less harsh
63 Post contains images Solnabo : Doesn´t AC need the A345 for the YYZ-HKK route? Thats a looong way to fly! What do U think, guyz? AC survives, belive me!! Michael/SE
64 Solnabo : Sorry, I mean HongKong, not New Zealand!
65 Chicago757 : Might boost up AirTransat........maybe?? I dont know. Dont know too much on Canadian carriers. That country always seems too quiet!
66 FLYYUL : "Mark give it a rest, you bring the YUL bashing upon yourself with that last statement. It doesn't matter where the company is based they should not g
67 CanadaEH : Who is saying that they are getting taxpayers money? They should be entitled to the damages to the industry as per events that are out of their contro
68 Post contains images FLYYUL : In fact, they are entitled to this money, however......... Worst off JetsGo, Air Transat and WestJet's operations are so limited in the USa and Intern
69 Post contains images SafeFlyer : I believe If AC goes down (which is highly unlikely because Ottawa will probably give them $$$ as soon as they announce grounding) others would probab
70 Yyz717 : They should be entitled to the damages to the industry as per events that are out of their control... did AC have control over SARS ravaging Toronto?
71 Donder10 : Why doesn't Westjet also get this cash bailout for the ills of the world?In fact why don't all Canadian businesses in the tourist trade get such a bai
72 StarAC17 : People, I have a question for you. It is obvious that most of you agree that AC shouldn't be compensated so I ask, how can we get AC making money with
73 Skywatcher : The Canadian civil aviation industry, with AC by far in the lead, is a cash cow for the Federal government (airport rents,GST,excise tax on avgas,secu
74 Yyz717 : I believe that AC can come out of Ch. 11 and begin to make money as nothing is impossible. I don't. Firing Milton is necessary but not enough. Much of
75 BAGSMASHER : they will not go down!
76 StarAC17 : One other thing. If the AC headquarters is in YUL, why did the whole airline shut down during the blackout for the better part of 2 days? There was no
77 Yyz717 : they will not go down! PA, BN, EA, AN, SN all went down. AC is equally high-cost, inefficient & with useless mgmt. AC will likely die....their busines
78 StarAC17 : Yyz717, You make very good points about the problems with AC and I agree with you on several of them but I have to ask. Do you like the airline (flyin
79 Dash8King : -Who is saying that they are getting taxpayers money? They should be entitled to the damages to the industry as per events that are out of their contr
80 Yyz717 : Do you like the airline (flying on it, it's product etc.)? Other than the odd surly FA, I've never had a problem with AC service.
81 FLYYUL : Air Canada is only burning cash because of very unfavorable market conditions. If you remember, last 2nd quarter, they made a profit. They just missed
82 Yyz717 : Air Canada is only burning cash because of very unfavorable market conditions. Unfavourable market conditions? The CDn economy is strong....in its 13t
83 StarAC17 : If you remember, last 2nd quarter, they made a profit. They just missed a profit for the 3rd quarter of last year also. The airline's fate relies heav
84 FLYYUL : "Unfavourable market conditions? The CDn economy is strong....in its 13th of consecutive growth...the longest stretch since 1900. Westjet is recording
85 Yyz717 : Does WestJet fly to IAH/DFW/LGA/EWR/BOS/DCA/IAD... didnt think so So what? What's your point? That lucrative business has died due to fears of travell
86 FLYYUL : "So what? What's your point?" -WS is sheltered, protected very much by the geopolitical tensions that come from international travel. "So you're sayin
87 Yyz717 : WS is sheltered, protected very much by the geopolitical tensions that come from international travel. Wrong. WJ operates in a completely competitive
88 FLYYUL : "Wrong. WJ operates in a completely competitive world. It's AC that is sheltered with its lucrative intl authority into slot restricted and competitio
89 Goose : StarAC17 wrote; Good line and if they did they shouldn't be allowed to stop in YHZ, YYT, or YQX for fuel. I am glad Westjet is around but they seem ve
90 Yyz717 : The main reason why it never was so proftiable in the 90's was the over-duplication of seats and supply out of Toronto especially.... YYZ-YYC, pretty
91 CanadaEH : Ok, if Air Canada should be compensated for things "out of their control", do you have ANY idea what sort of precedent that is going to start? Forget
92 FLYYUL : CanadaEh.. take it easy, dont take me out of context. Nobody is feeding AC any taxpayer's money, and nobody will. AC should have been compensated from
93 Yyz717 : My taxes are NOT to be handed over to Air Canada like candy to a little kid. I fully agree Canadaeh! Unfortunately, many AC apologists such as FLYYUL
94 FLYYUL : hahaha.. Ok Neil, lets revisit your bias... "Air Canada should move to YYC or YYZ"! Guess how many AC executives actually are from Montreal.... ZERO..
95 Skywatcher : Are you all blind. AC enables billions of taxes to flood into Federal coffers annually. I repeat, that's "into government revenues" not being "handed-
96 Yyz717 : to ignore that AC (and the others) are grossly over-taxed is ignoring that the taxation rates are by far the largest facture killing AC right now (IMH
97 AC320 : for goodness sake you cannot compare Westjet, Ryanair, or Jetblue to air Canada. They're totally different species of airlines. That's like comparing
98 Yyz717 : for goodness sake you cannot compare Westjet, Ryanair, or Jetblue to air Canada. Yes, you can. It's the same business. Carrying people from A to B. (A
99 Goose : Have other Asian airlines been compensated for lower yields due to SARS? If so, with how much? And.... Perhaps the reason why AC was only given $100 m
100 AC320 : AC apologist, oh please. Must you resolve to labeling because someone doesn't agree? Very rude. You cannot compare because they have different structu
101 Yyz717 : You cannot compare because they have different structures, the rest are low-cost operations, the other is a broad international one. You're making exc
102 StarAC17 : They burn through $5 million dollars a day. This is what they were losing in the second quarter, now they are probably losing around $500,000 even les
103 Goose : This is what they were losing in the second quarter, now they are probably losing around $500,000 even less daily. Good, no but they are losing 1/10 t
104 AC320 : I am not making excuses for AC! Their management and current operating structure are simply inexscusable and should be replaced immediately. I just si
105 FLYYUL : Once Again.. please respond to an excellent point made by Skywatcher, why does AC have to surrender to a 50% + hidden fees taxation rates on same of t
106 Yyz717 : why does AC have to surrender to a 50% + hidden fees taxation rates on same of the countries biggest routes. These fees apply to all airlines Mark. St
107 Donder10 : I couldn't agree more Neil.Fed taxes affect short-hop carriers more than long-haulers as the tax makes up a higher % of the overall fee.Thus,AC with i
108 Goose : True, the flat fees which were in place up until a few months ago hammered smaller carriers much more than Air Canada. The irony of paying the same fe
109 CanadaEH : Yea thats true Goose, any money lost is money lost. Back to the tax situation, I agree with anyone here who has said that the taxes are too high. They
110 Goose : I heard somewhere that YSB and YAM may return as summer Limited Addition flights..... which would work. WS did the same thing with service to Brandon,
111 SIN747 : Folks here often mention Qantas when discussing AC. They cite QF's profitability and the insanity of AC's branding and segmentation strategies. Well,
112 Yyz717 : There is a big difference between AC and QF......AC is bankrupt and poorly run; QF is not. The Aus govt asked QF to consider buying AN but QF refused.
113 Goose : I recall reading an article about AC being "forced" to buy Canadian.... Prior to 1999, Air Canada was dominant, but not oppressively so. Regional carr
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