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LH A346 Is Doing Test Flights  
User currently offlineSjoerd From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 361 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4815 times:

No pics yet ? Can't wait to see it. This new airbus will be the first with real lower deck facilities (besides lavatories), there will be galleys for pax. To me this sounds very attractive. Isn't boeing staying behind on this, you don't hear much from them on this subject ?


Flanders + Wallonnia + Brussels = the UNITED STATES of BELGIUM
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4653 times:

Boeing wants a standardized production line.

Customized facility's upper/below main deck would endanger standardization & pose a risk on the production line. It might even trigger other airlines to ask for customization ...

However looks like Boeing is changing now, forced by their market situation.


User currently offlineMD-11 forever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4597 times:

As far as I know, the customized facilities in question on the LH A346 are not provided by Airbus and therefore are not adding complexity and increased production costs to Airbus. The below main deck facilities are produced by Bucher, a renowned galley production company from Switzerland.

Cheers, Thomas


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4583 times:

Will their A346 have an increased seat pitch?

I assume they will have PVT's installed, and their current pitch together with a PVT box under the seat in front of you will make up for a cramped flight.

Regards
Frederic


User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4471 times:

no PTVs in Eco for the time being...

cheers
daniel



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4347 times:

Johnnybgoode:

Do you have any idea when LH is planning to introduce their new Y Class?

SailorOrion


User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4275 times:

Do you have any idea when LH is planning to introduce their new Y Class?

Or better: Do you have any idea when LH is planning to introduce PTV's in their new Y Class? It's a complete joke that they receive brand new planes and intoduce them on regular passenger flights without PTV's in Economy Class, maybe someone at LH forgot that we live in the year 2003.

Patrick


User currently offlineFly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3140 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4262 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

No PTVs here either:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fabrizio Fresia



I'd like to have them too, but the simple answer is return-on-investment.

Konstantin



Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4206 times:

Yes, I also saw that IB's brand new 346's don't have PTV's in Y either. I can't understand that LH is equip some planes with internet access but not with PTV's in Economy.

Will the 346's also have internet access? Since I am proud owner of a notebook I am thinking about a weekend trip to Washington (of course only if I find a cheap fare), just to try internet surfing while flying at 33.000 feet, that must be great.

Patrick


User currently offlineStarFlyer From Germany, joined Sep 2002, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4142 times:

LH is being really arrogant by not upgrading their Y class. I hope the customers pay them back for that. While yields may not be as high, there is still lots of money to be made in Y class. Paired with only average service quality LH may soon become an airline people will avoid.
I would assume they do have internet however. I read somewhere the charge per flight will be something around 30€! Must have been the LH Magazine that I receive every month.



Yours truly - StarFlyer
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4067 times:

StarFlyer: Since you are studying Business Administration, may I suggest that you read the thread about LH economy class on this forum?

You'll find a few valuable arguments why people like myself chose to fly LH, and will continue to do so, because they do a few things very much right as opposed to other carriers, a few things, that are pretty relevant to guys, who do flying out of business reasons.

And as I belong into that group (>200,000 miles per year), I can assure you, that PTV and such fancy stuff is way way way down the list of priorities I use, when chosing an airline.

Cramped seating is way way way up on the list, but there is virtually no difference among carriers and I wouldn't accept to prolong my flight by even 20% only to have one inch more legroom. A new Y class will provide not one inch more legroom, so why would market acceptance change just by putting new cramped seats? It won't !



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3987 times:

Andreas you are right other things are much more important. However LH competitors, like BA, KLM, AF and Delta also have the basics right (punctuality, valuable FF programs, good connections, etc ..)

LH not having PTV makes them stand alone. I for sure love watching a good movie of my choice on a long flight...

This was not what Lufthansa planned for y-class.

They changed their plans/ postponed introduction or whatever ... it makes their product inconsistent with most of their Star Partners to.

LH passengers always will travel with other airlines occasionally and the missing PTV will probably become an irritaror if they did pay a premium fare.


User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3975 times:

I also give a rat's a$$ about PTV's (had it on an AF flight from JFK to CDG in July but I used it only for approximately half an hour) but I think that it is ridiculous that an airline like LH don't equip its Economy Class on brand new long range aircrafts with PTV's. In my opinion is this an other evidence that LH gives a sh** about their Economy Class passengers, maybe I should apologize next time that I don't have the money to fly in Business  Yeah sure.

Patrick


User currently offlineStarFlyer From Germany, joined Sep 2002, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3948 times:

Keesje got it right, the point is that LH is falling behind other carriers.
And some of the ones mentioned DO make money, and the other ones WILL. I for my part only fly LH because they are so dominant out of my home airport HAM.
Andreas, if you charge high prices, and certainly LH do so, you have to offer a premium product. Otherwise it wont seem logical to customers to buy your product. Somebody who charges premium should always be ahead of their competitors, not behind. And whos saying that a PTV will result in less leg space, wouldnt it be a real innovation if they installed personal screens AND an additional inch of leg room? Then they could easily add another few euros on top of their fares.
I am sure there is people like you who dont care but you have to look at this as a whole, not from YOUR point of view. Few passengers dont care, others fly other airlines and realize how much more they could get for their money.



Yours truly - StarFlyer
User currently offlineStarFlyer From Germany, joined Sep 2002, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3936 times:

maybe I should apologize next time that I don't have the money to fly in Business
Patrick, thats exactly the point. I really just feel like an obstacle and in the way on LH, not welcome! And thats how it should be on a non low cost airline anyway!



Yours truly - StarFlyer
User currently offlineVermeer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 447 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3930 times:

StarFlyer,
I agree with you on the Y class on LH. It badly needs to be up to the standards.
As you know, for what concerns comfort, LH is not known for being an innovator but a follower, they always are a little behind the others.

My impression is that they really are not that concerned about economy. Their business class is almost constantly full on all routes ( and first as well, even with paying customers and not just upgrades!), that's their bread and butter.


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3901 times:

PTV: I'm still not convinced these are so relevant. These bloody things are small, even in Business, and on longhaul, very fortunately, my company lets me still fly Business, I couldn't stand it in economy, being 6 ft.2,
The last time I tried to watch a movie in LH Business was on my way to Dubai, Ang Lee's great movie Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, I managed to watch it but my eyes hurt afterwards and there was no fun in it, I mean come on, 10 or 12 inches...so I try to sleep or talk to fellow passengers or read a book. And to be frank, when looking around, there are not that many fellow pax who use these things!!!

So yes I believe these are way overrated, especially when talking about travellers on the job, be that Business or Economy class.

And I do not believe LH gives a shit about Y pax, on the contrary, but yields are extremely tight, every Euro counts that can be sqeezed out of the cost side of the equation, SARS is just over, so why risk too much? There's no reason, and LH is financially very sound (as opposed to most competitors), a position, that Mr. Mayrhuber will not endanger.



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineNethkt From Thailand, joined Apr 2001, 1044 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3831 times:

I hate all airlines that have no PTVs in Economy class.

SQ has them for a long time...and it's Audio&Video on demand...watch you want when you want. I couldn't believe that airlines like LH still has no. I will never fly them for long haul. :-(



Let's just blame it on yields.
User currently offlineEg777er From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 1834 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3830 times:

Just a small point about the production line: aren't Airbus underfloor facilities of a modular-type construction, so you just plug them in and hook them up?

User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4692 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3729 times:

Seems like we have now strewn totally off-topic... But anyway, here are my two Eurocents.  Smile

Fly-K has put it into a few simple words: the return of investment for the installation of PTVs in economy class is not warranting such an upgrade at the moment. I like to criticize LH for their shortcomings in some other areas, but from a professional point of view, I have to say that they are a very clever bunch when it comes to management decisions.

Some fellow posters here should really ask themselves, what their priority ranking is when booking an economy class flight. I very much doubt that a PTV is high on your agenda! Fare price, reliability, punctuality, number of departures per day and possible connections are top priorities. Only if you don't have to pay for your ticket because your company does so, you are non-reving or your mom and pop foot the bill, will PTVs and other similar gimmicks be a deciding factor.
Sorry to sound a little harsh, but analyzing and reading passenger surveys is part of my job, and this is just a very brief summary of the passengers airline selection processes analysis.

I would have never thought that I'd step in to defend LH one day - they are far from being my "favorite" (whatever that means) carrier. However, they are doing things that make economical sense, especially in trying times like these. Maybe some feelow a.net members here should try to see this not only from the "event flyer perspective", but from the cold hard business standpoint.

Hope you're not offended because of my ramblings.  Smile



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineSjoerd From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3677 times:

To return to the topic, what about the lower deck amenities ? Will they only be accesible to business class passengers ? This is at least something LH is doing and most other carriers not.


Flanders + Wallonnia + Brussels = the UNITED STATES of BELGIUM
User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3600 times:

Sorry, but what are lower deck amenities?

Regards
Frederic


User currently offlineStratofish From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1050 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3486 times:

Frederic, like an extra cabin under the cabinfloor. Many airlines which fly the 777 also have those but they´re only used as crew rest compartments.

As for the PTVs: (sorry for dragging the topic on)

Being the poor lad I am I always fly economy. First thing that counts are low fares rightly followed by PTVs. You learn to appreciate those on long haul flights. And while Andreas is right in complaining their size, they will grow eventually and most often the next TV screen in your view (if it´s not obstructed, that is) MIGHT be far a way and appear even smaller to your eye than your PTV would. That´s when your eyes really start to hurt. On my last flights about 7 out of 10 of us economy pax used them.
On a side note, until now LH has never been the cheapest one when I flew long-haul. But most Germans will continue to fly LH for irrational reasons even though they could get better fares and better service at other airlines. That´s why LH can afford not to invest in a better eco cabin.

Stratofish



The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
User currently offlineSjoerd From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3478 times:

The lower deck facilities, extra stuff. Like a galley, lavatory, a bar,... LH is gonna have facilities in the lower deck on their A346 what exactly I don't know, I got it from the Airbus website (news in Airbus4U).
Sjoerd.



Flanders + Wallonnia + Brussels = the UNITED STATES of BELGIUM
User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3442 times:

I fly Economy almost all of the time (unless I get a free upgrade), and I personally don't care about having PTVs or not. On a night flight, I sleep more or less all of the time anyways, and for the daylight flights? Well, I sleep quite a bit too, have some food, usually I chat with the FAs or I am reading a book, those screens you can find on most airlines are just horrible. I rather prefer watching a DVD on my notebook. So the only thing that I am really missing is an internet connection (to come soon) and a power outlet.

Nevertheless, I think it IS time for LH to change their Y class on intercontinental flights, but it's much more urgent to change their domestic/continental service, to distinguish itself from the LCCs.

SailorOrion


25 AirVB : Back to the topic again, does anyone know when the LH A346 is scheduled to be delivered and what routes it will be employed on? Thanks, AirVB
26 Vermeer : There was a thread about it not long ago... I think it is going FRA - EZE
27 Gigneil : Its also very interesting to note from the same Airbus 4U blurb that LH apparently has 35 more A340-300s on order. Is that possibly true? Maybe they j
28 Sjoerd : LH only has 10 A346 on order, must be a mistake.
29 Post contains links Sjoerd : This is the link to the airbus site, they have a (very) small picture now. http://www.airbus.com/airbus4u/briefs.asp?brief_id=1352[Edited 2003-08-20 0
30 Richard28 : I remember going from LHR-SYD a few years back in Y on BA (ouch!) the plane on the way out had PTV, but the one on the way back did not (I believe the
31 Kevs : Pax surely will appreciate PTVs in Y. However, my experience with PTV on SQ wasn't too good, screens are too small, slow responses. I would buy a few
32 Aviasian : Reference was made about the low yield in Economy Class for Lufthansa . . . just go to any travel agent in Singapore and Thailand and compare ticket p
33 SailorOrion : Aviasian: It seems that people prefer having a punctuality, frequency and connection possibilities over PTVs. Considering that LH outweighs the 2nd la
34 Sabena 690 : Wasn't also JFK in the pipeline for the A346? Thanks - interesting list. To be honnest, I'm surprised to see YVR over there... Regards Frederic
35 Post contains images StarFlyer : If anybody knows any dates on the YVR route... Please post on here! I'd love to fly on a spanking new aircraft like that... and check out Vancouver of
36 Fly-K : A possible explanation on the number of 45 A340s: LH had originally ordered 7 342s, one was sold on to Brunei, so the total count would be: 7 342 28 3
37 SailorOrion : YVR is the last of the aforementioned routes who get the A340-600, first flight is supposed to be in the second week of February. SailorOrion
38 Sabena 690 : Am I blind, or has LH no press release on their website about the upcoming A346? NW made a whole ceremony of the A333, why doesn't LH act a bit more '
39 Fly-K : It's still some time until the delivery... I believe the official launch of the new business seat will be in early October. Konstantin
40 Vermeer : I would bet that the 346 will do a couple of "runs" into NYC. It is almost an unspoken tradition for many airlines to "show" their brand new aircrafts
41 Sjoerd : The topic was the lower deck facilities ! Who knows more about that ?
42 MD-11 forever : @Sjoerd ....Check Reply number 2....... Cheers, Thomas
43 Sabena 690 : Hi Thomas, I still don't understand... what are lower deck facilities? Does this mean that you can go downstairs the aircraft, and have toilets etc ov
44 DoorsToManual : Hi everyone Not unusual for an a.net thread to go completely off-topic, but in an interesting way. If LH do indeed place the A346 on the EZE run, grea
45 Post contains images Nethkt : DoorsToManual .... Try SQ. Their Video Audio on demand (wiseman 3000 system). You will change all the opinion above. It's so much different from BA !!
46 DoorsToManual : Nethkt, that sounds great and I have nothing against this sort of IFE. All I am saying is that: 1) I won't choose SQ just because of this. If they are
47 MD-11 forever : Frederic, Yes, lower deck facilities means that the passenger cabin is only used to seat passengers, all the additional facilities like restrooms and
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