Tekelberry From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1459 posts, RR: 4 Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2193 times:
I think AA has made a very serious mistake here.
Why? The STL hub was arguably AA's dumpiest hubs (maybe MIA is worse). What is wrong with connecting in ORD? It is a much nicer airport, not to mention all the better international connection it offers. AA needs to save money and its doing just that.
Contrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1824 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2118 times:
STL took some of the load off ORD and DFW, which was badly needed, and will be badly needed again someday. Now that AA is gone, WN will undoubtedly take as many of AA's slots as possible, and AA will never again be a force to recon with in STL.
Some day in the not too distant future, imo, AA will look at this as one of the greatest mistakes they ever made.
Potomac From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2096 times:
i dont think so, contrails...having hubs in STL, ORD, and DFW isnt justifiable or practical for the overall AA route structure, just as hubs at BWI, PIT, and PHL didnt work for USAirways. but just bcs AA deemed STL not a good hub for them doesnt mean its not a good hub for someone else - i'm sure the new tenant will do fine there as STL will compliment their route structure much better.
LambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2055 posts, RR: 37 Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2015 times:
Well Potomac, Lets not foget we are on a completely different scale than US was with PIT, BWI, and PHL. AA is much much larger than US is and was, and when your other two airports are maxed out you need somewhere else to go, and STL fit that void perfectly.
Right now AA doesn't need STL and that is a hard truth to accept for me. But its a fact, they really do need to concentrate on their once extremely profitable hubs at ORD and DFW. They had to make their move at some time or another. If need be in the future build STL back up to its former glory if it is still available to them. There is one way to look at this though. It can't get any worse basically, and hopefully when things start looking a little better we'll get some capacity back. I'm sure we could at least get the RJ's off of PHL, ATL, and DEN. I don't agree with you on the WN topic though, they seem disinterested with STL. Even though they stated they will add flights, I doubt it will be anything drastic.
Potomac From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1980 times:
no you're right, i wasnt looking for a direct comparison as much as an example of strategically positioned hubs per the needs of a strong route structure. i think its too bad that AA is heading out, but like i said, i think there are carriers who will fill the void - whethere through a new hub or not - with service that will fits their needs and serve the STL market.
Okie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2710 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1919 times:
It looks like to me with AA keeping the "C" concourse tied up they are trying to keep another major player from moving in. It appears to me they will be in a pretty good position on down the road when traffic picks back up and they need relief for DFW & ORD. While there are quite a few gates on the "D" there are not enough for a big player to operate out of with any room for major expansion. There are enough gates on C to move a lot of planes with when the time comes and blocking other LCC's from making a big presence.
Yes, I was suprised to see WN not jumping in and doing something
Jr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 965 posts, RR: 6 Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1874 times:
Down the road, if they have learned their lessons, the majors will know not to be overly dependent on a booming economies that may be shortlived. They will try to keep cost stuctures intact, and play it conservative.
If the past few years have taught one fundamental thing, its been to not expand too fast - and this not just in the airline sector. Look at the major telecom based companies like Motorola, Nortel, Nokia, Ericsson, et al. and in this sector for example, its the players that decided to curtail growth during the peak economic times that are on top now. Companies like Nortel and Lucent paid hefty prices for expanding too much - look at their workforces now - less than 40% of what they once were. While this certainly does not mean doomsday, it certainly has important lessons for everyone concerned for the future.
Ncflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 449 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1790 times:
AA is losing a bazillion dollars, and closing STL is a mistake? How exactly, would you like AA to cut its costs otherwise? Hubs have HUUUUGE fixed costs, so downsizing one has got to yield tremendous benefits.
I'm frankly surprised they didn't go all the way. IMHO, the small, marginal hubs such as CLE, MEM, SLC, PIT have got to be amongst the least profitable-- well probably nothing is profitable these days, so I should say the biggest money losers.
LambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2055 posts, RR: 37 Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1769 times:
A-STL has no slots
B-WN is still "analyzing" what to do w/ STL
C-Its unfair to point the finger at STL for losing a ton of money, they were up against DFW and ORD. Obviously we were losing the most money,AA has the strongest hubs in the system! But I can guarantee we are better suited for a decent sized hub than SLC, CVG, PIT, CLT, CLE....
MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 4974 posts, RR: 7 Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1623 times:
Lambertman said: But I can guarantee we are better suited for a decent sized hub than SLC, etc...
210 flights a day (whatever AMR's November number is) *IS* a decent sized hub. Lots of other cities would like to be that lucky. It's not what you have now, but it is plenty of air service to support the STL business community.