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Which US Airports Had Transatl. Service In 1977?  
User currently offlineZrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3175 posts, RR: 9
Posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3978 times:

Basically, question is, "What US airports had transatlantic service before deregulation?"

[Edited 2003-08-22 19:30:34]


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6837 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3924 times:

If you mean nonstop only: without checking I'll guess 8 airports.


User currently offlineNtspelich From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3902 times:

PanAm was operating transatlantic service from New York (Idlewild/JFK), PHL, WAS, BOS fromw hat I can gather from a bad scan of a March 1, 1969 timetable.

Chicago (ORD?) , LAX and STL had additional service by TWA

NS



United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6837 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3841 times:

Nonstops:

SEA SFO LAX
ORD
MIA IAD JFK BOS

In 7/77 no nonstops from BWI PHL EWR DTW DFW IAH-- to London or Paris, anyway. Forgot to check STL and ATL, but I'll bet against them.


User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2037 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3836 times:

I'm pretty sure the above list is accurate, although I'm surprised about PHL.

ATL didn't get transatlantic service until 1978, when Sabena started BRU flights. Later that year, Delta and British Caledonian started LGW service, and Delta began FRA flights in 1979.


User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3835 times:

Houston had nonstop on British Caledonian to London.

KLM served Houston also, not sure if it was non-stop or not.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate


User currently offlineNtspelich From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3807 times:

Like I mentioned, I was looking at bad scans of old timetables, so you could imagine what all of the red lines looked like bunched up on the eastern seaboard.

Sorry for the misinformation

NS



United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6837 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3791 times:

Dunno if BCal flew nonstop IAH-London in 1977 but it's not in the 7/77 OAG. KLM flew IAH-YMX-AMS.

User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3772 times:

I'll check my old schedule then.

I know they did in 1978 because I flew them to Britain. My memory could be failing, but I thought my timetable dated from 1977 on that flight, but when I get home I'll check the old timetable.


Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate


User currently offlineDETA737 From Portugal, joined Oct 2000, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3765 times:

Here is a list of the information I could dig up on Transatlantic services in 1977 to the United States.


ANC- several European carriers flew here on route to Tokyo.

BOS- Aer Lingus, Air France, Alitalia, British Airways, Iberia, Lufthansa, Pan Am (before 1975), Swissair, TAP, TWA

DTW- Alitalia, British Airways, Pan Am, TWA (before 1975)

IAD- Air France, British Airways, Pan Am, TWA (before 1975)

LAX- Lufthansa

MIA- British Airways, National (to LHR after 1970, CDG was introduced in 1977)

ORD- Aer Lingus, Air France, British Airways, KLM, Lufthansa, Olympic Airways, Pan Am (before 1975), SAS, Swissair, TWA

IAD- Air France, British Airways, Pan Am, TWA (before 1975)

JFK- Aer Lingus, Aeroflot, Air France, Air India, Alia Royal Jordanian (began in 1977), Alitalia, British Airways, CSA, El Al, Finnair, Iberia, Icelandair, Iran Air, JAT, KLM, Kuwait Airways (began in 1977), Laker Airways (began in 1977), LOT, Lufthansa, Olympic Airways, Pan Am, PIA, SAA, Sabena, SAS, Swissair, TAP, Tarom, TWA

LAX- British Airways, Lufthansa, Pan Am, SAS, TWA

PHL- British Airways, Lufthansa, Pan Am (before 1975), Swissair, TWA

SEA- British Airways, Pan Am, SAS

SFO- British Airways, Lufthansa, Pan Am


User currently offlineJumboBumbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3726 times:

When did CO begin/end service to GTW from DEN with DC10s? I thought this flight was non stop.

User currently offlineJumboBumbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3718 times:

Check that, I meant LGW/DEN. Sorry  Smile

User currently offlineJohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1659 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3709 times:

How about British Caledonian's LGW-STL-DFW flight? That may have come after deregulation, though.

User currently offlineSkyhawk From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1066 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3686 times:

DETA737-How did you check your information?(Good job BTW) Just wondered because National(original) went out of JFK to AMS. Not sure of the exact dates, but I thought it was in 1977.

User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4267 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3665 times:

DETA,

I flew into PHL on British Airways in 1977 and we stopped at BOS. I am pretty sure this was routine, so I don't know if PHL had direct BA service back then.

rich



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineJacques60 From France, joined Jul 2003, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3624 times:

DETA737 : you missed AF to/from LAX in the 60's starting with 707 both pax and 70F , both via YUL , then with 741, tentatively non stop but soon with a tech stop in YUL dur to poor payload of the 741.

User currently offlineHaveric From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1247 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3618 times:

PHL has had n/s service on BA from LHR long before 1977

User currently offlineDETA737 From Portugal, joined Oct 2000, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3581 times:

I got all my information from old timetables and IATA records. I actually just realised that I forgot about Air France and I may have missed some other airlines. I'll try to answer some questions put forward.

- National Airlines did not begin service from MIA to AMS until July 2, 1978, service to FRA had started on May 1 of that year.

-British Airways and TWA both had non-stops from PHL-LHR at various times before 1977.

-Some of the carriers I listed above did not necessarily serve the respective cities non-stop. For instance Olympic Airways flew Athens-Montreal-Chicago.

-British Caledonian did not begin service to STL until October of 1983 and the service continued to Dallas the next year.

-KLM did indeed have a flight to Houston, they began service there in 1957. British Caledonian was the first carrier to begin non-stop service to Europe out of Houston in 1977.

-Continental's DEN-LGW did not begin until June 1987.

-TWA began inaugurated Transatlantic service out of STL in April of 1985 with service to LGW.


After derregulation in 1978 was when more point to point flights began opening up to Europe. That year both Braniff and Delta. In 1980 Northwest would enter Europe as well. European carriers began to service more US airports and entered codeshares with US carriers. Sabena, British Caledonian and KLM had entered ATL by 1981. Lufthansa entered MIA in 1979 and Sabena began flights to ORD in 1980.


User currently offlineSkyhawk From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1066 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3527 times:

DETA737-You answered about Amsterdam, but that was out of Miami, did you find out about the JFK flight? I do know that we flew it, my husband remembered working the flight departure but like me isn't sure exactly when it happened.

User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 19, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3507 times:

SEA-LHR non-stop, Pan Am at a frequency of 3-4 times weekly.

The earliest liberalization of rights between the U.K. (LGW) and the U.S. also began around this time. Initially, the plan was to allow a U.K. airline to launch a new service every other year and the same for a U.S. airline. Thus, a new U.S.-LGW route would be opened every year. The earliest routes launched under this plan were British Caledonian on LGW-STL/DFW and Delta, in 1978, on the ATL-LGW route.


User currently offlineDETA737 From Portugal, joined Oct 2000, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3494 times:

National Airlines began JFK-AMS in December of 1978 with the DC-10.

User currently offlineSkyhawk From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1066 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3483 times:

DETA737-Thanks for the reply, never got to fly it because National did "International Training" for Europe and if you didn't have it, you never got there. I did't realize at the time just what I was missing, found out when we were taken by PanAm.

User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3448 times:

DETA737- thanks for the words on IAH, I knew KLM had been at the airport for a long time. I checked my British Cal timetable and it is from 1978-79. SO I'll take your update on the 1977 flights.

The only BCal London -USA service is shown to Houston. for examplefrom Apr29-Oct27 1979 , there was daily service to London leaving Houston at 6pm w/ London-Gastwick to IAH leaving at 1140am. There is also a 'Texacargo' service from Glasgow to Houston listed (no times).

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate


User currently offlineZrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3175 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3411 times:

What about Bangor. Was that just a technical stop in the pre-jet era, or were the stops ever scheduled for passenger pick up/ drop off?


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6837 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3356 times:

I was surprised to see that circa 1968-74 PHL had two daily nonstops to LHR. Pan Am was first, then TW joined them by 1968; by 1974 BA had replaced Pan Am. I guess when everybody dropped their transatlantic 707s PHL didn't rate a widebody; must have been depressing to go from two daily Europe nonstops to none.

Also, in 1970 PA had nonstops to LHR from TW / KDTW), USA - Michigan">DTW and BWI; as I said those were gone in 1977. The BWI flight was a DC-8, which means JT4As. Wonder if they could take full payload out of there-- what was it, a 9500-ft runway?


25 Bluemeatball : If SJU is considered a US airport (which I do) then PA had flight 254 from MIA-SJU -LIS-MAD-FCO 2-3 times a week
26 ARCJET : Northwest Orient started European Service effective June 9, 1978 from Boston to Cophenhagen and Glasgow.
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