Bobs89irocz From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 632 posts, RR: 0 Posted (9 years 10 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3946 times:
I have a VERY reliable source on the inside of AA. I cant believe this airline is still in business, i guess i should go buy an MD-80 and put an American Airlines bird on the tail and have a 90% load factor so i could make some money. I have to vent to you guys alittle because i have been such a big AA fan all my life, now i realize what a big problem AA has on its hands. Airplanes coming into a mantnance base and only fixing the parts that are written up. If a tire needs to be change really bad, well to bad. They arent fixing that until the tire blows up or its written up. I guess preventive maintnance is unnecessary now...hmm makes ya wonder what is going on. Why is a 767 thrust reverser sitting in Cincinnati, Oh when AA doesnt even fly the 767 in there? Or have the equipment to change one? Talk about a waste of money. Pilots are refusing to fly airplanes because of maintnance not being kept up on there airplanes. "guess this flights not going out today because the tires are to worn and the pilot doesnt want to risk the airplane" Nice waste of $30,000. Mechanics pay being cute so they dont give a crap about working on planes because they have to have 2nd jobs to pay there bills which makes them tired and all they do is go to work at night and sleep on the airplanes instead of doing a B-check. The person i know went to check an MD-80 after a B-check and 38 reading lights didnt work aftwards. Here again, makes you wonder what else they didnt pay attention to. The new CEO is an ex TWA head honcho guy. Nice move, but a guy in charge of AA that ran TWA in the gound. Why did AA buy a bankrupt airline anyways? When Bob Crandall left AA had $6 BILLION in the bank, now AA is $8 BILLION in dept, granted i know some is from September 11 but with the airline now haveing more of a load factor then ever before dont think they have to be making some money now? So why doesnt it show? Because the guys running the shows are taking back the money they lost. Guys are already making almost a million a year off this airline and now they take the mechanics/PILOTS/FA/Managers pay away. This has affected my life in a BIG way, i wanted to go to school to be a pilot and now i cant because of this darn pay cut. Good thing i was smart and saved my own money....i have SO much more stuff to say im just tired of typing and i know i have rambled on and on. Please, anyone with anymore info on this topic please add....Thanks for reading.
BR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3914 times:
Instead of venting, why don't you support AA until their last breath. God knows they are trying, but like you said, they are in debt. I'm pretty sure that if a tire needed changing really bad, they'd change it. Oh boy, 38 reading lights don't work. Not really a necessity though. It doesn't affect whether the plane will fly safely, which is what maintenance really cares about right now. They don't really care about you wanting to finish 'The Shining' in-flight. Granted, they are in big trouble, but with enough support, they will pull through this big mess, and one day will be able to look behind it. But if you keep venting like this, who would expect any airline to pull through?
Bobs89irocz From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 632 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3899 times:
If i keep venting like this? What impact to i make on AA? NOT ONE...i do support the Airline but NOT morons....38 reading lights are out on an MD-80...yeah i know, not a problem for you or me but what about the paying business man that is making a night flight from DFW to Calgary (4 hour flight) at night and needs to read some paper work. I dont think hes going to be happy. Remember the passangers are the ones that write the pay checks. When people slack off and dont do there job because there contract was cut it really pisses me off. Expecially when it comes to flying. Besides, i was just making a point that mechanics fall asleep half way through there shift instead of doing the job right. Makes you wonder about the things that arent obvious that they didnt fix. Thats whats scarry. Before all this crap and the aquirring of TWA's aircraft AA had a very well kept fleet of Aircraft...now if you guys only knew what a problem with maintnace they have you would think twice about somethings. I dont AA is the only airline with this problem. I know CO and UA do to but i dont know to what extent it is like i do AA.
Luv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 11957 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3816 times:
Well from all that I read I have come to the conclusion that AA management has created a lot of there problems. With Carty pleading poverty only to find him stealing from the cookie jar, so to say. Also I have not read a whole lot on AA and its efforts to work with the employees in these trying times. Such as keeping them motivated and focused on seeing these problems through. That right there is why you see the lack luster attitude, and over worked employees snapping at customers.
AIR757200 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1579 posts, RR: 8 Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3803 times:
For your information Bobs89irocz, any airline that has something written up but is not a no-go item, that flight will operate. You post is mostly speculation.
If a tire needs to be change really bad, well to bad.
-Do you have the maint. log to prove this? Or your very reliable source has copies of the log?
Why is a 767 thrust reverser sitting in Cincinnati
-Did you very reliable source advise you that sometimes, I'm not saying this is the case here, that airlines share parts?
Oh when AA doesn't even fly the 767 in there?
-Well, DTW doesn't get 767's, but we've seen them plenty of times for diversions, etc.?
Pilots are refusing to fly airplanes because of maintenance not being kept up on there airplanes.
-The only thing I've heard internally was the objection to fly the A300 by a small group of pilots after Flt. 587. Those pilots are transferring (or in the process) to other equipment.
The person I know went to check an MD-80 after a B-check and 38 reading lights didnt work aftwards.
-This is not a no-go item. What's the big deal? There are over 150 other lights that operate.
This has affected my life in a BIG way, i wanted to go to school to be a pilot and now i cant because of this darn pay cut.
-There are plenty of other airlines you can apply too, if AA was to start rehiring, they have a long recall list to work off.
And finally, Is AA really going to make it? In my opinion, yes. There are still plenty of bumps ahead.
Flymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6325 posts, RR: 6 Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3772 times:
It is reallu hard for the Largest Airline in the World to go out. We have talked about this so many times. Goverment wont let AA go out. 105,000 people work for AA. No airline would be able to fill their routes that are needed for an long time and none could ever afford it. Why cant the reverser be Delta?
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
StevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 2 days ago) and read 3701 times:
Yes...AA will make it. Just like UA, DL, NW and CO will. Every airline has problems right now, some more so than others. This is a great time for those airlines to restructure/revisit their operations and make adjustments and cuts where needed. Some choose Ch. 11, some can do it without going that route. So far, AA has avoided it, and probably will.
A little confused on the CEO comment: My understanding is that Gerald Arpey started his career in '82 as a financial analyst for AA, and has been with AA his whole career. I don't understand the TWA connection there?
I'm not trying to discredit your source by any means, but morale is low at both UA and AA (I also have two very reliable sources ) and your source may be very down at the moment on the state of things, which is understandable. As a result, that person may be focusing on the bad parts, but I do believe there is room for optimism at both AA and UA.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16316 posts, RR: 52 Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 2 days ago) and read 3645 times:
"Why is a 767 thrust reverser sitting in Cincinnati, Oh when AA doesn't even fly the 767 in there? Or have the equipment to change one? Talk about a waste of money"
A great book to read is "From worst to First", its the story of CEO Gordon Bethune's remarkable turn around of CO.
Gordon Bethune in the book gives alot of examples of some of the in-efficiencies he had to correct , simple ones such as...
They had a parts warehouse for their A300 aircraft in Greensboro North Carolina, only problem was that they did not fly A300s into Greensboro. They were trucking the parts from Greensboro to Newark, Houston etc..
He changed that and a whole host of other in-efficiencies which eventually started making CO one of the most efficient airlines in the industry.
It seems from the outside that AA is suffering some of the same problems, they were so big and in-efficient but still making money that no one really made any efforts to streamline AA's operations. Storing 767 parts in Cincinnati is not a good idea, someone needs to scrutinize AA from top to bottom and immediately make the "obvious" corrections.
Correcting obvious in-efficiencies and creating and investing in new technologies and procedures to further streamline their operation would go a long way to returning the company to profitability.
Luv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 11957 posts, RR: 51 Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3602 times:
The book from "Wrost to first" is wonderful and insightful on the airline industry as a whole. I think your analogy is 100% on the money. The thing is it is such an easy fix to correct some of the airline ills that no one wants to believe that such a simple fix could achieve the results they want.
AA7771stClass From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 293 posts, RR: 6 Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3574 times:
It never ceases to amaze me how people with "sources" seem to know that the airline is doing horrible things, or they think they can run it better themselves. AA has to be doing all that it can to correct its situation...it's just a slow process. Nothing against your source, just be careful because most of the stuff on this forum is heresay and rumor.
TokyoNarita From Palau, joined Aug 2003, 570 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3564 times:
Why is a 767 thrust reverser sitting in Cincinnati..
Don't you mean thrust reverser parts are shipped from Cincinnati? As far as I know, GE engines and its parts are made and assembled in Cincinnati. If so, what's the problem? Every airlines have spare parts but sometimes you have to get shipped from the manufacturer. It seems like a routine process.
For your information, the FAA allows a flight to be operated with certain equipment inoperative. We go by the MEL (Minimum Equipment List) and defer certain items and yet maintain acceptable level of safety. You really have to look at it in a bigger picture and see how an airline operate to make such a comment. The pilots always operate less than perfect airplane and it is still safe and legal!!
I have a hard time believing your story at AA. Someday you will understand when you become an airline employee (I assumed you are not) that everyone's primary concern is safety and every effort has been made to accomplish that goal.
AIR757200 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1579 posts, RR: 8 Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3559 times:
They had a parts warehouse for their A300 aircraft in Greensboro North Carolina, only problem was that they did not fly A300s into Greensboro. They were trucking the parts from Greensboro to Newark, Houston etc..
Once again, the original message was "a 767 thrust reverser". There may be hundreds of reasons why a part may be in CVG- can anyone confirm that AA actually uses CVG as a *parts warehouse* for the 767?
Where's the facts guys?!?! Or are we just assuming from our reliable sources? I worked for AA and I have my "reliable sources" but I wouldn't and hardly comment what they are on this site.
Capt078 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 421 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3498 times:
i believe aa will make it. i do not believe that ua will make it, which would be the best thing for american.
do not kid yourself about losing one of the biggest airlines in the world/country. let's not forget about pan am and eastern (not to mention braniff, western, national). granted, these were smaller than aa or ual, but certainly the demise of a major is not impossible. many analysts argue that ual will liquidate because there is too much capacity in the domestic market, and because the airline is too inefficiently run (read marginal costs are in excess of marginal revenue). the government will use certain liberties to help sustain (chapter 11, military charters, subsidization for certain routes, local tax shelters...), but these are only effective to a point.
regarding the comment about how it is "really hard for the largest airline in the world to go out", this is somewhat true. there are many industries where it is cheaper to continue operating at a loss than to go out of business. airlines, railroad companies, factories, etc., all have significant costs of going out of business. this is why government interventions under the bankruptcy code were created. in ual's case, it was losing too much money to continue operating without change, but could not cease operations immediately either. chapter 11 allows the airline to restructure its debts and costs. however, if the airline is not able to maintain itself after reorganizing, dissolving the airine would be a possibility.
Capt078 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 421 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3351 times:
Tekelbery: to whom did you address your most recent message? i ask this because suggesting people are writing "unsubstantiated lies" is a surefire way to evoke negative and reactionary comments. you sound like a little school girl stomping her feet because she didn't get asked to the dance. relax, this thread is about conjecture. people are speculating about what they think. i agree, most of it is unsubstantiated, but calling them lies is a bit bellicose, don't you think?
Bobs89irocz From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 632 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3261 times:
I could get copys of the log book to prove all the cases i just talked about.
YES, there really is a 767 thrust reverser sitting in Cincinnati. Who cares if a plane was diverted there. Why do they need a part there when they dont come in on a regular schedule?
38 reading lights are out on the MD-80, Yeah, big deal but AGAIN. Like i said already, its not a "no go" item but its there for the customer, if you dont keep the customer happy then they will just change airlines. When a mechanic is suppose to do a B-check and only does a half-fast job doing it so he can go to sleep in the airplane before he has to take it to the gate then there is a problem and those lights should have been fixed.
All that i have stated is FACT. Im not saying names for fear of someone coming on this sight and knowing who my sources are, but they are two level 5 (managers) 1 level 4 (supervisor) and 3 crew cheifs. There is so other things i will post later to back up my statements but right now im headed to ha friends party/ his wifes baby shower (congrates Rick).
Tekelberry From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1459 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3199 times:
It blows my mind that you are making a big deal about some reading lights being out on 1 SP80. I would rather have the mechanic concentrate more on the airplane's necessary functions rather than freaking out about some reading lights.
There's a 767 thrust reverser in Cincinnati. Point is? When has AA ever had problems with their thrust reversers?
Here are your lies:
1) AA is in debt by $8 million dollars. They have $2.4 billion in bank and short-term investments.
2) Pilots not flying planes because of tires? The only case where AA pilots refused to fly is on the Airbus A300s. They didn't fly because they were paranoid about Airbus, it's not that they didn't trust AA maintenance.
3) Gerard Arpey is an ex-TWA "honcho guy". Not true.
4) Maintenance workers having a second job and sleeping on the airplanes. Where is that logbook to back that up?
5) Gerard Aprey (CEO) makes millions of dollars. His annual salery is around $500,000.
6) They only have pay cuts because the big CEOs want to run the airline into the ground and take money while they're at it. What are you talking about? Gerard Arpey has turned the airline around into becoming profitable again. There was no other way to do that if they didn't cut their employees saleries. Rest assured, they have been doing a lot more to becoming profitable again in Q4.
Milemaster From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1011 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3157 times:
These "AA is F*cked" are getting really old. Quite possibly becoming as becoming as repetitive as:
"What is your favorite livery?"
"When is NWA retiring their DC9's?"
"How is UA doing?"
"What is your least favorite livery?"
"DL needs a new livery!"
"AA needs a new livery!"
"UA needs a new livery!"
"US needs a new livery!"
"HP needs a new livery!"
"Larry Hagman needs a new liver!"
"BA needs a new livery!"
"LH needs a new livery!"
"What is your favorite airport?"
"What is your least favorite airport?"
"L1011's are neato"
Seriously.. I don't understand the obsession with liveries, L1011's, and AA or UA's demise.
The way a I see it, if AA titled themself as American Airlines (49% owned by Singapore Airlines Limited), went bankrupt, and flew a fleet of L1011's with liveries from every respective airline, 100's of people wouldn't know what to do on airliners.net anymore.
Capt078 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 421 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3123 times:
Tekelbery: thank you for clearing that up. i would say that calling them lies is pushing it, but i too believe they are unsubstantiated. it seems to me this guy has a little too much youthful exuberance. i am immediately apprehensive whenever someone starts a thread with "i have a very reliable source who says". that's just heresay and how rumors get started.
yeah, why don't you get those maintenance records. when you get them, let us know, we'll send you our email addresses and you can send us copies. i have some contacts at the ntsb, i'll forward what you give me. then you can sleep at night knowing you saved lives and cleaned up american's maintenance problems.
i don't have a problem with your inquiry about an aa thrust reverser at cvg. what i do have a problem with is your automatic cynister reaction, suggesting aa has nefarious maintenance habits. did it ever occur to you that this particular part might be there for a legitimate reason? for instance, perhaps aa is trying to raise cash by selling superfluous parts, and delta picked up a good part at a good price but hasn't painted it yet.
regarding fixing only what is written up, that is standard practice. outside of scheduled checks, maintenance personal only respond to noted discrepancies. what do you think, that maintenance people assigned to fix a tire are going to scan the entire airplane inch by inch to fix every problem? airlines maintain MELs (minimum equipment lists). as long as the airplane has the required equipment to fly safely, minor and cosmetic repairs can wait.
lastly, rather than get childish and defensive, how about substantiating your original comments. you claim, "all i have stated is FACT..." this is not true. in one of your rants, you talked about mechanics falling asleep half way through their shifts. were you there for that? if not, it's heresay, and not necessarily true. the only two things worth commenting about were the thrust reverser and reading lights. well, AIR757200, TokyoNarita, and i have all given logical and legitimate possibilities as to why those situations exist. i do not think anyone doubts your interest in this matter, and certainly everyone appreciates that, but all of your above comments appear to be nothing more than naive conjecture. rule of thumb, unless you have absolute certainty about something, do not write as if you do. there is nothing wrong with modestly asking a question.
StevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3107 times:
Just wanted to clarify your point on your comment about "debt=bankruptcy". From a financial accounting standpoint, all companies, profitable or not, have debt. Also, it doesn't matter if they're in Ch. 11 or not. My company (not an airline) has $1.2b in debt, but it's mostly fixed debt made up of mortgage notes, revolving line of credit, and private placements. Many other companies are similar in this regard. Lenders/stockholders look at a company's debt and management's ability to manage it and compliance with certain requirements set in place. More focus is placed on debt compliance and debt management for companies that are in Ch. 11, as the risk is much higher. Certain debt ratios against their assets will determine what interest rates a company will pay on their debt. Complicated stuff.
Milemaster: LOL!!! Well put....
Bobs89irocz: I wouldn't be publishing logbook activity on a website like this...you could not only get yourself in trouble or fired, but possibly those who work for you. Chances are someone from Sr. management at AA might be looking at this website. You never know....