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India-Pakistan Aviation Talks Collapse In Acrimony  
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2740 times:

The much awaited aviation talks between India and Pakistan have failed spectacularly with the Indian delegation walking out of the meeting within hours of their arrival in Islamabad.

The Pakistani side was unwilling to discuss India's demand that overflight rights to Indian carriers be granted prior to landing rights in India for Pakistani carriers. India currently has no restrictions on overflight by Pakistani carriers.

A spokesperson for the Indian delegation said that "Pakistan has entered these talks with a very negative mindset. Until that changes, we are not willing to resume bilateral discussions". He also publicly chastised the Pakistani delegation by saying "This is not a step by step process, this is half-steps".

The Pakistanis countered with a retort that "we don't care if this process takes forever because India's financial losses are ten times those of Pakistan".

The collapse of these talks is viewed as a very serious blow to the current peace process between the two countries. The Indian government has made it clear that it would not be willing to engage in high level discussions on the Kashmir issue until aviation links were sorted out.

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineBd1959 From Australia, joined Oct 2002, 450 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2643 times:

Thanks for the post Sean.

I must admit that no matter how much you love aviation, I really can't see the sense in making something as important as Kashmir being reliant upon bilateral aviation agreements.

Or am I just being naive and this is merely a smokescreen?


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 5197 posts, RR: 47
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2627 times:

Dont mean to be bias or anything but I find this utterly childish on both the countries part on suspending airlinks. INDIA suspended airlinks due to the Parliament attacks and thought that it was a good bullying measure. Little did they know that they screwed themselves as AIR INDIA + INDIAN AIRLINES has suffered seven times the losses that PIA has.

PIA too suffered as DEL and BOM were one of their top 7 most profitable routes and have now been forced to curtail their Far East flights except for ISB-BKK-HKG-PEK-NRT on A 310s.

India few months ago reopened their skies to PIA because they knew that their state airlines were losing BIG TIME $$$...Pak Govt being smart didnt allow a reciprocal arrangement.

Now what should be done is this...regardless of what political activity happens....AIR SPACE of BOTH THESE 2 COUNTRIES shouldnt be closed to one another after theyve agreed to restart all overfly and commercial flights.

India badly wants to fly to Afghanistan and they can only via PAK airspace!

User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2611 times:

Pakistan is clearly playing to see how far it can push India for concessions. We need to stay firm and not expect too much.

As for the Pakistani Govt, well Musharraf has amply demonstrated that he only does what the US State Dept allows him to do, and like every faithfull Pakistani puppy dictator before him, he will implement only what Colin Powell allows him to. Therefore it is pointless to expect anything from his side.

I think the best option is to continue with the track 2 policy of increasing people to people contacts. What is being called the "Noor and Munir" effect is already thawing relations on the people to people front.

It is best to continue interacting with the Pakistani people, allowing even more interactions between our people and encouraging them to act in the interests of democracy. Sooner or later they are themselves bound to overthrow the rogue puppet regime.


User currently offlineAviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1490 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2584 times:

Agree fully with Roy that whatever happens on the political and other arenas, the improvement of people-to-people contacts must continue . . . for this ultimately will be the force that will bring about peace.

Closing both airspaces to each other's airlines does nobody any good at all. It only hurts the people, airlines and economies of both countries.

I can only hope that good sense prevail at some point in time. In the course of my work, I have seen Pakistani and Indian travel industry professionals relating to each other as warmly as any neighbours should . . . perhaps politicians should take a lesson from their countrymen and women in the travel industry.

KC Sim

User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1535 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2546 times:
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What a shame. India and Pakistan - twins separated at birth - and yet so much acrimony, ill-will, antagonism and what have you.

Whatever be each country's standpoint on Kashmir, why not cooperate on other fronts. This way the Kashmir dispute too will come to a peaceful conclusion. If each stopped stock-piling weapons aimed at each other, what a boost it would give to the economy of both countries. Its high time we put away the daggers and took a leaf out of the European Union's book with all South Asian countries (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bhutan and the Maldives) comeing together in a EU or ASEAN like affiliation and truly letting the world see this region bloom - socially, economically and politically.

Aviation-wise, the sky would literally be the limit!


Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16493 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2546 times:

No doubt the very recent bombings in India have heightened tensions between I & P. Perhaps a short deferral in further bilateral discussions is politically expedient given the larger overall relations.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2537 times:

The United States is not acting to prevent India and Pakistan from establishing air links or otherwise improving their relations. They would not be singing 'Kumbaya' but for U.S. influence.

[Edited 2003-08-29 21:59:28]

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16493 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2535 times:

Perhaps not a related issue, but I would like to see Jet Airways receive intl authority to challenge the govt-owned monopoly of IA and A-I. Given the short range nature of the Jet fleet, Pakistan would be good place for Jet to commence intl experience with their existing fleet. IMHO.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2503 times:

"Little did they know that they screwed themselves as AIR INDIA + INDIAN AIRLINES has suffered seven times the losses that PIA has."

Since when has profitability been an issue for ANY Government of India? The babus in charge are still of the socialist snooze mindset.

In any case, between Emirates, Lufthansa, and Singapore Air, India has a de facto international carrier of its own. If nothing else, this absurd Indo-pak cold war of "speaking loudly and carrying a little stick" gives the Indian aviation ministry something to do. Needless to say, they're just as productive at it as they are at upgrading Air India's obsolete product.

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