Lga1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 67 posts, RR: 0 Posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2258 times:
I think jetblue is a pretty good airline, but I just don't like the A-320, I don't trust it. I don't see why they are ordering Embraer when they can just get A318, 319 or 321 instead. I wonder if Jetblue would do better with the 757 just as Song is? The 757 is bigger, more seats, and longer range, what do you think?
JpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4221 posts, RR: 29 Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2239 times:
So youre saying you dont trust the A320, but then question why they dont order more from that series? The Embraer is smaller than the A318, and is better econmically, as the A318 doesnt make all that much economic sense compared to the A319 in most cases.
GKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24621 posts, RR: 59 Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1923 times:
You dont trust the A320? Huh? Reasons please, as the A320 is a perfectly safe a/c
Except that one time one went into the forest, and the other time one went into the sea.....
But apart from those (unless there's more), the A320 is extremly safe and comfortable, despite the noise of the engines
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
TriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4685 posts, RR: 48 Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1887 times:
And I thought this is going to be an interesting discussion with some good arguments.
Instead, it is just another "I think airline A should have gotten aircraft B instead of C because I have no really valuable and factual arguments for it".
Sorry, maybe I am too demanding.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
StarFlyer From Germany, joined Sep 2002, 987 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1871 times:
A very hypothetical thread...
The A320s are the key to B6s success. They were chosen because overall they were the better product. When you make decisions in business you dont just go by "ummh - dont like this wont buy it" - you make decisions based on the numbers. And that's why in this case the A320 was chosen.
Just like there is plenty of cases were the 737 was ordered.
Greg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1744 times:
JetBlue had 737's in their business model.
Airbus beat Boeing in both price and delivery positions.
That is why, at the time, they were the better 'product'
Technology or efficiency had nothing to do with the decision. Both the 73NG's and 32X's are so close in actual seat mile cost that neither would ever be the clear winner. In actuality, B6's attempt to get Airbus to develop the 320.5 was to bring the cost in line with the business plan (737-800's would seat 12 more than the 320 in the current config.).
Cost per seat mile is lower for the 320's, because their depreciation is lower, because their acquisition cost is lower..... Full stop.
It was a shrewd decision and it's working very well for them. It could have just as easily have been 738's at B6
The aircraft itself is not 'key' to JetBlue's success. Only the yield in which you are able to fill them.
Motech722 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 211 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1680 times:
This does seem like an interesting thread, and could be a good question to ask of many airlines. I'm unsure why you "just don't like the A-320", wish you could explain a little more as to why that is, but nevertheless, it is interesting as to why airlines choose the aircraft they choose.
You also "wonder if Jetblue would do better with the 757 just as Song is?" That is a good question, but at the same time, is the B757 really the aircraft that JB needs? The B757 might seat more people, but would JetBlue be able to fill those extra seats? In addition, is the B757 right aircraft for the fleet at all? National tried to use a common fleet of B757s out of LAS, and it has since failed.
At the same time, perhaps the B737 would have been a better fleet for JB, but as Greg pointed out, "Airbus beat Boeing in both price and delivery positions", which is something an airline needs to consider when buying planes. I'm just guessing on this next item, but perhaps JB wanted to use a different aircraft than SWA.
As for the Embraer order, time will tell how that works out. I do think it is an interesting strategy to get your "own" regional jets instead of contracting with another airline to supply that service. At the same time, this order also goes against what JetBlue has marketed itself as, a single-type operator. It will be interesting to watch and see.
BoingGoingGone also makes a very good point, "Why don't we wait and see if JetBlue even survives 10 years." I understand that Jetblue has been doing very good financially, which has given them a good base to buy more planes and expand, but in some ways I'd be worried about this expansion. As history has shown, over-expansion too fast can spread an airline too thin. While JB was able to stay under the radar for a while, it is now having to compete more and more with the majors. Song is the combat force of Delta, perhaps once the airline industry straightens out, the competition will become more fierce.
There are many questions, many options, and going back to the first question of this thread, will the A320 be the right choice for the airline? Only time will tell.
LGB Photos From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1635 times:
Well originally jetBlue wanted 737-700's but Boeing said that they would not sell the plane to a start up airline, so jetBlue went to Airbus and the rest is history. I bet Boring, I mean Boeing is wishing they has sold jetBlue the planes in the first place. Just imagine the boost to the 737 program if that had happened.
BoingGoingGone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1629 times:
"Boeing said that they would not sell the plane to a start up airline, so jetBlue went to Airbus and the rest is history."
This is a policy that Boeing needs to get away from if they want to survive. They're unspoken policy is not to sell any aircraft to a start-up. This is a huge mistake and one Boeing better change if they hope to stay alive.
Lga1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 67 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1275 times:
First I don't like european a/c, and I don't like a US Airline picking airbus instead of boeing, I think that is portrayal to your own country. At the beginning of the A-320s life the problem it had with the fly by wire system caused me not to believe in it. I also don't the idea of a pilot controlling an a/c with a joystick. I believe the 737, 757, 767, and the 777 or much better then the A320, 330, and 340.
Bobs89irocz From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 632 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1256 times:
I to think the 757 would be "cool" if SW or JB ordered them but its not smart for what they are. SW has been around for a long time and are doing well. Jetblue like someone stated above has only been flying for a few years. Give them 10 and see where there at. I think its great to see two domestic airlines going head to head with two different aircraft types that compete with each other as well. As much as i love Boeing and there designs i believe Airbus is a better business to deal with. Look at all the "smart" sales they have made and taken from Boeing. If Boeing wouldn't be so up tight and just settle for a lower price Airbus wouldn't have been as much of a factor as they are now. Boeing has done this to themselves.
National Airlines didn't go under because they flew the 757's. That actually worked pretty good for them. LAS-ORD I know worked good for sure. But ultimately the fleet type is not the cause to an airline folding.
Lga1011- I do somewhat agree with you about the A320. I don't really trust it. I know they have sold A LOT of the type but IM not a fan of the Avionics set up and how the aircraft runs/operates. I don't know the systems of the A320 very well but from what I do know I don't like it and never will. Im not saying its not a good aircraft, im just saying its not what I like. It like comparing a Lamborghini Deoblo to a Ferrari Enzo. Both VERY sweet cars (A320-737) but they have there differences and i personally would go with the Ferrari, in this case the 737.
25 Gigneil: portrayal Portrayal? Anyway... this is a free market economy. Airlines should be compelled to buy the best product for their needs at the best price,
26 Lga1011: Gigneil - I know the 777 uses the fly by wire system but it never had a problem with the system but the A-320 had many problem at the beginning of it'
27 EmiratesA345: Opinions are like a55hole5, everybody has one. Lga1011, Do you realize that the Boeing 777 is also equipped with fly-by-wire technology? It has been a
28 Bobs89irocz: I agree with you alittle bit more, i HATE the fact that you have to fly the A320-30-40 with a joystick. I dont know if i could transition between the
29 Aaron747: Thank you for the reasoned response N. I was going to be a lot more harsh with the kid.
30 CALMSP: They should have bought A318 instead of ERJ 170. Now they have to train new pilots and mechanics. The entire time of constantly making money they have
31 BCALPRIDE: I don't think that Boeing brushed JetBlue off because they were a start up? It's only that Boeing wasn't willing to take the risk on a low price with
32 CanyonBlue: As a happy JetBlue crewmember let me add my two cents to this weeks debate. 1.) We're doing excellent. We had a 91.6% load factor for August. 2.) The
33 Scbriml: Bobs89ircoz, "i HATE the fact that you have to fly the A320-30-40 with a joystick" Have you actually flown an Airbus with sidestick? Just curious if y
34 777236ER: Ok enough: por·tray·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pôr-trl, pr-) n. The act or process of depicting or portraying. A representation or description. be