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New Russian Aircrafts, Why Nobody Buys Them?  
User currently offlinePouyazad From Iran, joined Sep 2003, 119 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3090 times:

Hi,
Why do you think new Russian aircrafts such as IL96 and TU204 have no many customers? I think they've proved their good performance.

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3059 times:

What's the incentive to bother with them when you can buy a A343/772ER and A321/752?

...initial purchase price aint everything  Big grin


User currently offlineBAJMowiec From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3017 times:

Hey!

Ok, ConcordeBoy, I don't see your point, but I guess I know what you mean. Russian planes are not trusted, underestimated and distrusted for deacades.It's the way it is, Airbus and Boeing are among the trusted brands.It all comes down to safety and quality, as well as a name  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Piotrek


User currently offlinePolnebmit From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2990 times:

I guess it's due to the fact that Russian and ex-Soviet Republic owned airlines have not had a good maintenance program for their aircraft, understaffed or untrained people working for the airline. This has given their whole fleet of AC a tainted name. Still, I trust Boeing AC a whole lot more. I'd think twice before boarding a Russian made AC. Just personal opinion.

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2954 times:

Ok, ConcordeBoy, I don't see your point,

The point is....
what would compel major airlines who 1) already have extensive Boeing and/or Airbus fleets and 2) are shifting toward fleet commonality to the maximum extent allowed their chosen business model; to purchase Russian aircraft, which would be complete oddballs in their fleet???


The answer: .....nothing!

That's why you dont see CX flying IL96s, or DL flying TU204s, etc


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2934 times:

....in fact, probably the only airlines you'll EVER see operating those such fleet types are Eastern European, Siberian, airlines of countries under UN sanctions, and possibly new airlines to whom startup startup capital is in extremely short supply.

User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

Do you think that the image might change even a bit if Boeing does go ahead in partnership with the RRJ?


I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlinePolnebmit From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2895 times:

Why would Boeing shoot itself in the foot doing this? They're already hurting, so why do something to hurt them even more?

User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3394 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2803 times:

The thee main reasons probably are:

1) shoddy or no customer support. Having a plane is nice, but if you can't get spare parts to repair it....
2) no leasing companies have them in the portfolio. Only very few airlines actually buy their planes.
3) reputation. The new TU-204 and the AN-140 may be very safe, but try explaining that to mom and dad with 3 kids and a Toyota. They don't know. The press will have a field day when, say, BA announces to buy TU-204s.



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlinePositive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2670 times:

I agree with Petertenthije. Russian aircraft have a bad image in the minds of the public. Imagine if QANTAS got IL-96's instead of 747's, a lot of people would be reluctant to fly on them simply because they are Russian. They might be a great plane, but bad image with the public.

User currently offlineBroke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2509 times:

1st: For a long time aircraft designed in the Soviet bloc would not meet either US or European airworthiness standards. The Yak-40 and -42 were the first aircraft to do so.

2nd: Soviet aircraft were not economical or reliable; you could get them cheaply in the past, but the cost of operation was not good.

Currently, the trend of combining Russian airframes with western engines and avionics are making the aircraft more attractive; but they have a considerable headwind to overcome. Most countries who used to rely on Soviet aircraft for their commercial fleets have gone western and so they do not have a base market, even domestically, to start with.


User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2463 times:

I'm thinking along the lines of Positive rate and Petertenthije. The new Russian planes could be indestructible but people would much rather fly on a Boeing or Airbus. I have read stories online of Russians flying on a certain airline just because they have western aircraft.

Cabin of a TU-204 / cabin of a 727-200.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © William Ronciere
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gregg Stansbery



I think they look similar.

Cabin of a TU-134A. I don't know much about Russian aircraft but I think this is an older plane, as all of the inflight photos were taken in the late 80s early 90s.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel Frohriep-Ichihara



Does this plane have oxygen masks?


User currently offlineNikibary From United States of America, joined May 2003, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2423 times:

Aa757first, are youjudging the tu-204 by the type of seats that the airline installed in it??
Also the tu-134 is a vaey old aircraft, im sure most western aircraft in the 60s and 70s didnt look much better, if its the cabin that you're comparing.


User currently offlineRichard28 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 1633 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2253 times:

IIRC even Aeroflot has a policy of flying only western jets to western europe.



User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3258 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2074 times:

That is a complex problem. The old school of prejudices against Russian built planes are proving very hard to overcome so most Western airlines (and many from elsewhere) stay loyal to Boeing and Airbus planes. Even though the newer Russian planes are of better quality and have higher technology than the older ones their engines remain singularly problematic - while the mating of Western engines with Russian frames (as on TU-204) overcomes this somewhat it does not erase the views of Russian planes held by some.

The other part of the equation is that Aeroflot, which is the best-financed Russian carrier, has been introducing many Western planes into its fleet. On the one hand this is to present a more acceptable image to moneyed customers in Western destinations and, on the other, because securing deliveries of Russian planes has been very difficult in recent years. They have only ever received 6 of the 12 IL96-300s they ordered some 15 years ago! Many of the CIS airlines (and virtually all Eastern European ones) have also gone Western in recent years. The many smaller Russian domestic carriers do not have the finance to buy the newer (and thus more expensive) planes so they stay with the old, noisy and smoky types from the 60s and 70s.

For all of those reasons, the new Russian planes have found few buyers. It is a great pity though.

TrintoCan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

There is also the significant problem of production capacity...

Many of the ex-Soviet manufacturers are having a hard time building and delivering planes, much less spares for them.

At one point the production rate on the IL96 was less than 3 a year...

N


User currently offlineKilavoud From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2041 times:

If I look at the interior of these russian planes, even if I keep a cool head, it makes me feel cold,it sends shivers down my spine. But if the vodka i flowing, maybe I will forget it. Who knows ?

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