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Accc Says NO To Qantas/Air New Zealand  
User currently offlineAJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2395 posts, RR: 24
Posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5485 times:

Just reported on Channel 7...a resounding NO on the proposed stake by Qantas in Air NZ.

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3217 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5475 times:

Hurray!!!! Raise your glasses everybody, we're still gonna have
an Air NZ!

This would have been the beggining of the end for NZ.....
I think they're gonna come out of this okay...i bet the new A320s
are gonna be set up similar to JetBlue, for the new TasmanExpress and
i have no doubt that will be popular if they keep the price down!


User currently offlinePolnebmit From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5448 times:

Finally someone put their foot down on Qantas. Getting too big of a bully down there!

User currently offlineRendezvous From New Zealand, joined May 2001, 516 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5405 times:

I'm glad that decision was made-

User currently offlineAJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2395 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5402 times:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/09/1062902029685.html

User currently offlineAJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2395 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5382 times:

The response from Qantas:
http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn/au/publicaffairs/details?ArticleID=2003/sep03/2958


User currently offlineQANTASpower From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 516 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5373 times:

Qantas will get what it wants .... it always does.



User currently offlineThadocta From Australia, joined Aug 2001, 397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5358 times:

Typical, that communist Samuels is even worse than that limp-wristed communist that was in there before, Comrade General Secretary Fels. If they are trying to turn Air NZ into a non-entity only operating on back-water routes, they are going the right way about it.

Dave


User currently offlineQANTASpower From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 516 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5295 times:

Thadocta,

I agree with you 100%. I am disgusted with the actions of the ACCC trying to create some false market across the Tasman. As a Qantas shareholder I am so angry that this deal has been blocked. However what all you Qantas haters have to realise is that the Australian Govt will legislate this through if they have to.

This will also mean that SQ has no chance of starting up services from the Australia to USA.

This alliance will eventually go through. No one else wants to invest in Air NZ.

QANTASpower will prevail!


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3217 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5282 times:

QantasPower
I've got news for you...The Commonwealth DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER to legislate this matter through. Such a move would go beyond the powers outlined under s51 and s92 of the constitution. The Parliament just can't go and make laws on whatever issue it pleases...it has to operate within the constitutional framwork and a very big part of that is operating within Judicial review. The commonwealth has power, subject to judicial review and can't simply go and 'legislate' against the decision of any board of Judicial review.
THAT would be a move far more akin to communisim.
Also its not the ACCC's job to protect Qantas or premote the interests of Qantas Shareholders. Their interest is in the public. Otherwise you could
argue the price fixing in supermarkets, petrol stations, drug production etc could all operate in the form of Cartel's, and maximise their profits. Ummm
that would be very bad for the economy.

In any case, New ZEALANDERS, don't want to be invaided by Australian Companies! So, even if the Australian government did have such power to regualate anything it pleases, well it still has to be approved in New Zealand and they're not going to do that. Come on...Qantas is in a very good position across the pacific already by far and large controlling it. How much more do they need?


User currently offlinePilottim747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5274 times:

I'm with Lufthansa. QANTAS needed to be put back in it's place. Although I think it's a great airline I also think that the alliance would have given more power to this airlines which already holds so much power in the Pacific.

pilottim747



Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
User currently offlineBuckfifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5260 times:

The fallout from the Ansett saga continues.

In reality, even if the alliance does not go ahead, cartel price fixing and under the table dealings between Qantas and AirNZ would most likely continue on the trans Tasman routes.

In any case, Air New Zealand's prospects are dim to say the least. Their former aspirations to be a global player now long dead in the water, and further rescue from overseas investors are now highly unlikely for an airline with such a small market. If Virgin jumps into the trans Tasman fray, that would likely spell the end for AirNZ.


User currently offlineAviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1486 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5221 times:

This issue strictly concerns the implications of a union between Qantas and ANZ on the travel interests of the Australian public.

At a later stage if this gets the blessings of the ACCC, then the New Zealanders have to go through the same due diligence.

Please don't always drag Singapore Airlines or any other carrier into this issue. It only serves to dirty the already muddy waters. The Open Skies negotiations between Australia and Singapore is the result of a willingness of both governments . . . don't think it is one knocking on the door with a beggar's bowl and the other dishing out charity.

KC Sim
Bangkok


User currently offlineRmm From Australia, joined Feb 2001, 524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5189 times:

So, can we assume from this decision that AirNZ will become a purely domestic carrier as so often stated by CEO Norris?

Rmm


User currently offlineStar_member From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5187 times:

great news......air nz is doing well despite all the threats from qantas. air nz should focus on its strengths like the nz domestic market, south pacific and trans tasman. why should an airline of a small country be offering a large international network anyway. how does that serve the nz public. i think all this negative talk about air nz turning into a small airline in the backwaters misses the point that as long as air nz makes a profit and serves the public it is a great success. don't get sucked in by the megalomanical tendencies of qantas chief geoff dixon.

User currently offlineAJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2395 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5176 times:

A common misunderstanding is that the Air New Zealand board does not support the Qantas stake, quite the contrary, to quote Air NZ's media release: "Air New Zealand Managing Director and CEO Ralph Norris said that while disappointed with the ACCC's decision, the next step would be to apply for review of the decision by the Australian Competition Tribunal."
http://www.airnz.co.nz/aboutus/mediacentre/pressreleases/default.htm


User currently offlineQANTASFOREVER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5151 times:

Hey, Qantas is just dishing out Karma here.

They come over here and f*** up our airline, we'll go over and f*** up theirs.


qff


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5134 times:

Bye-bye Air NZ, then. Domestic/Trans-Tasman LCC in 3 years, out of business in 6. Shame, really - it's a good airline.

User currently offline'Longreach' From Australia, joined Jul 2001, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5109 times:

What does this do to Virgin Blues hopes of operating in New Zealand under the name of Pacific Blue?

I think part of the alliance was allocated access and slots for VB?

Qantas stated a while ago that they were holding back on ANZ until this deal went through; are New Zealanders about to get a price war before Virgin even arrive in town?

Put your predictions as to which company will bust first!


User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4507 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5092 times:

Just how bad off IS Air New Zealand anyway?

I'm afriad I dont know too much about the airline's ops, but I thought they had 744 operations going transpacific and even into California at one time didn't they? Do these ops no longer exist?

Here I was thinking Air New Zealand was a large airline...


User currently offlineAir Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1518 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5060 times:

QANTASpower,

No matter how much I perfer QF over Virgin, I still think you're pushing it a bit. What does "Qantas gets what it wants, it always does" mean? I don't think they'll give you a job at Qantas marketing even if you wanted one. Snobbery is what ppl think of Qantas (although slowly changing), but you just prove that lots of people are right about the QANTAS ATTITUDE!

I suggest you stop acting like that before you do more damage to QANTAS' name

Jimmy


User currently offlineQANTAS747 From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5035 times:

Although I am very shattered about this decision, especially as I am a Canberra resident and it would have been great to see the combined entity operating direct NZ flights out of Canberra, after all it is the national capital of australia.

As for what Lufthansa said "In any case, New ZEALANDERS, don't want to be invaided by Australian Companies! "
I think that is quite the contrary, mainly because Virgin's plans to enter the pacific markets, involve it operating out of NZ with it 1:50 ratio keeping costs down. And also QF has been trying to do the same thing by using its NZ subsiduary Jet Connect to operate accross the Tasman. So therefore NZ will have 3 airlines based in NZ operating out of there. So it is much like NZ companies 'invading' Australia.

It is a terrible shame, and with the increased competition on trans-tasman routes with Emirates entering the market, one (or 2) of the four just will not be flying the route. As much as I dislike Virgin Blue, their busines plan is a success and their plans for pacific routes will most probably go ahead well.

It is a big shame, because now Air NZ will probably be the loser of all these shananagans, and unfortunately they will ultimately fail, as QF have a fairly strong domestic and International presence and it is improving quite a bit.

It would have been a good tie up, as we go through the revolution of the LCC, and having the 2 full-service guys up against the not so little LCC would have benefited everybody involved. The ACCC in Australia is going to eventually kill businessess with their attitude towards everything. it is all good and well to try and keep fares down and such, but they have to give consideration to these world recognised international airlines in this struggle in this difficult aviation period.

Oh well, Maybe in 10 years a direct NZ service from CBR will be viable, hell we already do charters with Super 12..... Just another bump in the road.

QANTAS747


User currently offlineDoorsToManual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5028 times:

Interesting times.....I wonder what plan B is for QF and ANZ (I'm assuming they planned for this outcome).

rgds


User currently offlineStarFlyer From Germany, joined Sep 2002, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5023 times:

Some of you people obviously dont understand that competition is the driving force of market economies. Only through competition there will be innovation and investing in new products.

What some of you may not know - New Zealand is actually one of the most liberal countries in the world in terms of market regulation - just about everything is privatized and many large companies now belong to Australian owners, including New Zealand's largest bank.

In this case however, it was right to decline the application for an alliance between the two countries major airlines. Anyone with a bit of knowledge in economics should have seen that one coming, particularly Ralph Norris and Geoff Dixon.

Norris' constant blackmailing has had many believe that there will be no Air New Zealand if this alliance gets a NO.

However, I believe that if NZ change their strategy, focus on their key markets and on cooperation with Star Alliance partners such as UA, LH, BD and SQ, there will always be Air New Zealand. Obviously it is wishful thinking that a country like NZ with a population of about 4 mio can support a large international airline like Australia can do. NZ needs to accept that it is a niche carrier. So what - just deal with and move on.




Yours truly - StarFlyer
User currently offlineAir Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1518 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (11 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4991 times:

I don't think the size of NZ is the reason that Air NZ won't be a big international airline. I think the main reason that Air NZ wo'nt be able to grow too big is the geographical location of the country.

Singapore, Dubai, and Taiwan are all fairly small countries but they all have a sizable airline.

I think what will happen to Air NZ ultimately is that they'll turn into a "Air Tahiti Nui" (but a bit bigger), focusing mainly on inbound market and some outbound market.

agree?

Jimmy


25 StarFlyer : Jimmy, TN is a great example. Thats how I see things too. Your completely right about the fact that NZ is so remote and thus hardly has any connecting
26 Aviasian : Personally, I think that an alliance between Qantas and ANZ is going to provide both carriers with some efficiencies . . . at the expense of the publi
27 Aerokiwi : Being one of the few (wait, am I the first?) actual New Zealanders to contribute to this thread, I think some things need to be clarified and others e
28 TNboy : Once again the ACCC demonstrates that its head is firmly between its legs. The trans-Tasman route now has more carriers than you have fingers on both
29 Lufthansa : StarFlyer...said like a true german! Im proud! AeroKiwi.... thanks for bringing some sence back into the debate. I liken this to what all the Anaylist
30 'Longreach' : Just a question... do you all think that Virgin will be anywhere near as successful over there considering it is up against a Low Cost Domestic Air Ne
31 Post contains images StarFlyer : Lufthansa, sorry, but what was so "German" about my post? I consider myself half kiwi (I am actually a resident of NZ) and I think anyone with a broad
32 Lufthansa : Wow....slow down a second! I was referring to the very direct, down to the point approach you took! I admire it...and if you said u were from PNG or s
33 Post contains images StarFlyer : Thanks Lufthansa! I was just wondering what you meant! Peace bro! [Edited 2003-09-09 20:04:07]
34 Mx5_boy : What on earth are the ACCC thinking? This was a perfect opportunity for the ACCC to show they are not some backward communistic anti-business entity a
35 QANTASpower : This is not over yet. I believe a new proposal will come out whereby QF will agree to "sell" there NZ operation to Virgin and withdraw from the NZ dom
36 Mx5_boy : Qantaspower, I think the ACCC has made it quite clear that even the revised application was considered a complete joke, so I cannot see another revise
37 Beno : IMO QF Should forget about the alliance and do what they should have done 2 years ago and kill off Air NZ which will free up plenty of market in the l
38 Aerokiwi : "Kiwi bravado" ? Hardly. Simply trying to remind others on this thread that it's not just a decision for the Australian authorities to make. Believe i
39 Thadocta : After reading ALL of the above, I need to make the following points: * Qantas wants the deal * Air NZ wants the deal * Aust government (via the Minist
40 Wirraway : Wed "Sydney Morning Herald" Air NZ ruling buffets Virgin By Scott Rochfort September 10, 2003 Fresh doubts have been raised over the timing of Virgin
41 Wirraway : Wed "Sydney Morning Herald" Banker better than Biggles By Alan Kohler September 10, 2003 Ralph Norris, the chief executive of Air New Zealand, has bee
42 QANTASpower : Aerokiwi, You are incorrect. Qantas will get 2 places on the Air New Zealand Board one of which will be taken by CEO Geoff Dixon. In return Air New Ze
43 Mx5_boy : Aerokiwi, Bravado indeed. I work as an International Equities Trader mate and we consider NZ a basket case economy. NZ has been raped and pillaged and
44 Mx5_boy : I forgot to add that Kiwi fundamentalism or *balls to be aussies* killed off one of our premier airlines.... small country with an attitude problem..
45 Air Taiwan : Apparently, the *VOTERS* don't want the deal -- THAT is the problem here Dave! You see -- QF/NZ tie up, prices "may" not go up no QF/NZ tie up, prices
46 Pacificjourney : Mx 5 boy don't you think basket case is a bit strong ? Admittedly no Asian Tiger but hardly one foot in the grave. On what do you base your expert opi
47 Lufthansa : mX5.....That was a very harsh swipe at the Kiwi's. Now we all have heard of the book "the ugly American"... for certain reasons...and I don't want to
48 Mx5_boy : Lufhansa, Your dreaming mate. Aussie business people taking to the A320? No-one in my office will fly NZ, internationally (or domestic if they attemp
49 Aerokiwi : Heheheh, MX5_boy, you're always good fodder for proving a point. I wouldn't dare question the amazing intellect of an "International Equites Trader" (
50 Mx5_boy : Aerokiwi, *Amazing International Equities Trader Intellect* Buddy I trade in Equities accross the Asia Pacific and we consider NZ the most difficult t
51 Post contains images Yyz717 : I forgot to add that Kiwi fundamentalism or *balls to be aussies* killed off one of our premier airlines.... AN is dead. Let it go. With incompetent m
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