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US Judge Allows Lawsuits Vs. Boeing, AA, UA, Et  
User currently offlineHole_courtney From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 569 posts, RR: 1
Posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4139 times:

Just breaking on the BBC,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3094758.stm

I personally think it's awful that people are going to try and get a lot of money out of this. It's not like Boeing could have designed their planes to withstand the impact of the crashes, or if AA or UA could have trained their pilots to figure out if the terrorists were really going to land or suicide bomb something.

Ridiculous.

live forever and stay beautiful,
hole_courtney


"[He] knew everything about literature, except how to enjoy it." - Yossarian, Catch 22
98 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4072 times:

How is it possible to sue the owners of the World Trade Center for a plane hitting it ? Er, its a 3 million foot high building, that can't exactly dodge out of the way. You might as well sue an airport if a plane crashes on the runway, for having put the runway in the way !

Not to be funny or anything, but how do American lawyers sleep at night ?



User currently offlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3047 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4068 times:

I agree with you hole courtney. Why is UAL, AA, Boeing and NY port authority getting sued for. They didnt do this. How where they suppose to know this was going to happen. Is it the fault that this happened?? NO! This judge is on crack!

User currently offlineJAL777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4021 times:

It's because we represents the best interest of the folks that hired us.

No... you serve the best interests of your wallet. Please... tell me how you would serve the interests of the folks that "hired you" in this case.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3987 times:

Greg,

How can it be in anyone's interests to sue the owners of a building that got hit by a hijacked plane ? How can the owners of the building possibly have any responsiblity for that ? Clients are advised by lawyers as to who may bear responsibility and thus liability for damages they have suffered. This seems to me to be an extremely cynical and mercenary action by unscrupulous people, who in my opinion should feel very ashamed of themselves.

P.S. on a lighter side and completely off topic, what happened to the group of heftier persons who sued McDonalds for making them fat ? As a large economy size person myself, I was most interested in the outcome of that little episode - ka-CHING !


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3987 times:

Before we begin yet another lawyer bashing thread - While I don't agree with this lawsuit, or the judge, and I rarely agree w/ Greg's logic in why these types of suits are ok - he is totally correct - the source of these suits isn't the lawyers, although they undoubtedly benefit (massively) from them, it's the people that are looking for someone to blame. And that is a result of our society, which has done away w/ the concept of individual responsibility, and promoted the concept of everyman as victim.

Regards
Duane



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineJAL777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3977 times:

And that is a result of our society, which has done away w/ the concept of individual responsibility

DING DING DING DING DING!!! WINNAR!!!


User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1834 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3967 times:

Let's see if I have this right: A bunch of screwball idiots hijack some planes (against the law), crash them into buildings killing a lot of innocent people (also against the law); and the people who manufactured the planes, the people who owned the planes, and the people who owned the buildings the screwball idiots flew into were negligent??

I suggest we take up a collection to let the people behind these lawsuits move to another country. Someone form a committee, pick the country (I have a couple of suggestions), and I'll be the first contributor for some one-way tickets.





Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineTeva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1875 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3960 times:

DIdn't president Bush call those attacks acts of war?
Doesn't the US law have special procedures for acts of war?
That sounds strange, because insurance contracts exclude those acts of war.
Teva



Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3943 times:

Contrails - don't say France ! We may some issues here, but we don't deserve this bunch...

User currently offline4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 3046 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3913 times:

Could someone summarize Greg's apparently deleted post? I missed it.

And that is a result of our society, which has done away w/ the concept of individual responsibility

True. But the whole story still nauseates me. If the US does not enact some sort of reasonable lawsuit reform, we are doomed. How can anyone be expected to build anything, much less innovate, when their work may be rewarded by an absurd lawsuit like this.

I'd support a "personal responsibility", "assumed common sense", or "it is an imperfect world and life comes with risks" amendment to the constitution.




Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
User currently offlineB777FA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3908 times:

Totally ridiculous...But then again when it comes to suing nothing surprises me anymore...(Remember the Macdonalds lawsuit when a woman sued because she spilt her coffee on herself and it was too hot!)

Why not open the door to sue the Saudi government,after all some of the hijackers where from there OR the US govnt,the CIA and FBI failed to uncover the plot!!!!


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 858 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3862 times:

To sue everyone/body is what makes USA togo round.
PUHLEEZE........



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineB777FA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3820 times:

Mexicana you are right...The judge must be on Crack!!!!

User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3774 times:

My post just stipulated that lawyers work on behalf of clients. We do not work in a vacuum. We do not represent ourselves. People hire us.

State and Federal Law allows specific remedy for damages of gross negligence as seen fit by a jury or judge. Clearly some victims felt strongly enough to seek legal counsel.

Brgds.





User currently offlineKorg747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 549 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3768 times:

So People wants to blame or sue UAL,AA, and Boeing? Are those company's right now in a position to be sued? They picked the only two airlines that are having trouble and Boeing that's loosing a lot too. I get the feeling Boeing is going to go out of making civilian aircrafts, and UA and AA will just go bankruptcy. Maybe that will teach people a lesson when they see all those jobless employees? or am I just talking to the wall?


Please excuse my English!
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3757 times:

It's not like Boeing could have designed their planes to withstand the impact of the crashes

No... but it is like Boeing/Airlines/FAA could have mandated that the cockpit doors be reinforced.

As the doors were at the time of the hijackings, any 10yr-old child could have easily burst through them. They were designed in such a manner for the sake of pilots getting out in an emergency... never the thought of anyone getting in. Some would call that negligence on behalf of the parties involved in the doors' creation and/or utilization. Not to say that I agree with the suits in and of themselves, but those are some of the fundamental principals.

[Edited 2003-09-09 20:50:37]

User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 17, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3725 times:

My post just stipulated that lawyers work on behalf of clients. We do not work in a vacuum. We do not represent ourselves. People hire us.
**********************

This isnt entirely true. The TV is full of commercials stating things like "Did you hurt your toe walking into the kitchen?, did you know that you don't have to suffer this, someone else must be to blame, call us today for your free consultation..."

Lawyers encourage these sorts of frivolous lawsuits, and if you look at the settlement figures, and who gets what % of the money, the client "who's best interest" you respresent, usually gets far less of the pot than you do.

I appreciate that you have a right to work, so advertising your skills is all part and parcel of the job, but to suggest you have no part in it is bollocks


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3707 times:

The crux of the judge's ruling is that the type of risk was foreseeable. I strongly disagree. He has had the benefit of two years of hindsight. The realm of the possible has gotten much bigger in our minds.

On 9/10/2001, I think that the events of the following day were outside of our imagination let alone what anyone could foresee.

If the judge could contemplate that kind of risk in September 2001, he is in the wrong business.


User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3698 times:

B777FA:

Unfortunately, sueing a "Sovereign" (independent nation) is a rather difficult task, and it's next to impossible to collect.

Not to back up the plaintiff's argument, but if the owners of the WTC (the NY/NJ Port Authority) were negligent in training for an evacuation of the towers, then they may have grounds for a lawsuit.

However, against Boeing, AA, and UA, since it has always been FAA policy to "do exactly what the hijacker says," there was hardly any reason to reinforce the cockpit door. I can't see how UA, AA, and especially Boeing could be held responsible.

Okay, maybe UA and AA vis-a-vis security, but they contracted security out to a certified firm that specialized in airport security. But even then, the weapons used to take over the planes were legal to take on board prior to 9/11! That's the great myth of 9/11: Security didn't fail that day. Counter-terrorism failed by telling us to not fight back.

How about sueing the Customs Office and INS? They're the ones who let the terrorists in the country and run around doing whatever they wanted. Oh, wait. Same problem as Saudi...



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineBa319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8588 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3683 times:
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This has to be the dumbest thing out.

How on earth can they have a suit against Boeing and the Port Authority? - mad!



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3621 times:

After looking up some info the the judge in this case, why am I not surprised.

Hellerstein, Alvin K.

Born 1933 in New York, NY

Federal Judicial Service:
U. S. District Court, Southern District of New York
Nominated by William J. Clinton on May 15, 1998, to a seat vacated by Louis L. Stanton; Confirmed by the Senate on October 21, 1998, and received commission on October 22, 1998.

Education:
Columbia College, B.A., 1954

Columbia Law School, J.D., 1956

Professional Career:
Law clerk, Hon. Edmund Palmieri, U.S. District Court, Southern District of New York, 1956-1957
U.S. Army, JAG Corps, 1957-1960
Private practice, New York City, 1960-1998

Race or Ethnicity: White

Gender: Male



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (11 years 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3582 times:

" Are those company's right now in a position to be sued? They picked the only two airlines that are having trouble and Boeing that's loosing a lot too. I get the feeling Boeing is going to go out of making civilian aircrafts, and UA and AA will just go bankruptcy"

It would not be the companies that would have to pay , it's their insurance companies.

And I think this lawsuit does not have standing, the attacks were caused by negligence of US Intelligence, the FBI, Immigration and Naturalzation for not missing oppurtunities to prevent this act.

However these agencies cannot be sued, so these folks are looking at someone who can.

I would expect legislation to be enacted by Congress to protect these companies against these lawsuits relating to 9-11-01.




Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 23, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3531 times:

They have just added NW, DL, US AND Continental to the lawsuit, stating that "This could have happened on those carriers also, but said that they were leaving Jetblue out of the lawsuit because they fly airbus"

Jeremy


User currently onlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4763 posts, RR: 44
Reply 24, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3496 times:

So I would imagine DC, Boston and New York airports getting sued as well?

Come on people. This is ridiculous. I'm proud to be American, but not when everyone is sue happy.




Some see lines, others see between the lines.
25 Post contains images Mexicana757 : If this lawsuit causes UA, AA and Boeing employees to lose their jobs... I say that those employees sue right back. Especially the judge, and then the
26 Post contains images EmiratesA345 : I didn't even bother reading the article. All I have to say is it is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. People have no shame these days. Everyt
27 Greg : How incredible you say it's the stupidest thing you've even heard of--yet you admit you don't have a clue what the article says. This type of judement
28 NonRevKing : My post just stipulated that lawyers work on behalf of clients. We do not work in a vacuum. We do not represent ourselves. People hire us. Ya know wha
29 Bucky707 : "It would not be the companies that would have to pay , it's their insurance companies" and what do you think will happen to the insurance rates of th
30 BoingGoingGone : "Federal Judicial Service: U. S. District Court, Southern District of New York Nominated by William J. Clinton on May 15, 1998, to a seat vacated by L
31 Cancidas : it's really sad that someone wants to benefit from the death of my friends! what the hell is wrong with them?!?!?!
32 Delta-flyer : We do not work in a vacuum. We do not represent ourselves. People hire us. Yes, but lawyers usually seek out their clients and entice them with hefty
33 MaverickM11 : I'm going to file a lawsuit against class action lawyers. I'm thinking of suing them for at least 1 trillion dollars. They have hurt, raped, and stole
34 Bobrayner : Why are you blaming lawyers? If you don't like the idea of personal responsibility being eroded, or if you think that duty of care gets bigger ever da
35 MaverickM11 : Lawyers are acting on people's behalf? Which people? Their clients get little to nothing; the employees of the company they are suing get shafted, and
36 Lgbguy : The phrase of the day is, "COMMON SENSE" which unfortunately it seems most lawyers do not have. These suits wouldn't even come to trial if the lawyers
37 Sinlock : Well, From what has been said so far in the 36 posts so far, I would say that Jury selection for the Prosecution is going to be very long and fruitles
38 Greg : Pardon me for getting a trifle defensive. Just out of curiosity, who do you think makes most of these outrageous settlements you claim? That's right--
39 Alpha 1 : B757300, who the fuck cares that Clinton nominated him, for God's sake. Do you have to make EVERYTHING a Clinton-bashing forum? Are you so one-track,
40 EmiratesA345 : "How incredible you say it's the stupidest thing you've even heard of--yet you admit you don't have a clue what the article says. This type of judemen
41 Alpha 1 : How can you not possibly think its wrong to try to benefit from people's deaths? Maybe because lawyers make so much money and benefit the most from p
42 N79969 : While I strongly disagree with this judge's reasoning, I would not so quickly condemn the people trying to sue the airlines. I am not talking about th
43 JAL777 : Some of the people that are suing may still face significant financial hardship if they accept the U.S. government settlement. From personal experienc
44 MaverickM11 : "Just out of curiosity, who do you think makes most of these outrageous settlements you claim? That's right---a jury does. So next time you hear about
45 Aa777flyer : Although it is way to early to tell, I really hope that this will not cause a major down turn the the recovery of our airlines (AA and UA). It could b
46 Greg : Low and behold I'm not going to defend myself from a coffee shop supervisor. Huge surprise! And actually, I don't practice much Personal Injury (PI).
47 NonRevKing : The courts will decide if the case has merit. And in the mean time waste how much public money? Like it or not, it's a litigous society. I'm only a co
48 Kevin752 : This is just terrible. since we can not find ossama Bin LAden now everyone in the US wants to blame everyone else because of this. I am supprised tha
49 MaverickM11 : "Like it or not, it's a litigous society. I'm only a cog on that wheel. Get over it." It doesn't bother you that doctors refuse to perform the most ba
50 Paddy : Litigation has gotten completely out of control in this country. It literally makes me sick to my stomach when I read articles like that. What a perve
51 NWA : I agree with greg on this one. Though I think this is just plain stupid, dont blame the lawyers for it. A jury grants them the money. lawyers are ther
52 MaverickM11 : THE LAWYERS PICK THE JURY!!!!!! PS again, not all lawyers are bad, just class action ones in general
53 IMissPiedmont : OK. I got tired halfway through this one but there are a couple points I'd like to make. Firstly. This, in my opinion is a lawsuit that needs to be he
54 DALinATL : The Port Authority is not being sued because they had anything to do with the WTC, they're being sued because they controlled security at JFK. Why wou
55 Godbless : Didn't the Italian President say that "judges were sick in the head" or something like that? Well I seldom agree with that ugly guy but in this case h
56 CPH-R : A few things: The PANYNJ were also responsible for the security at EWr, that's why they're in the lawsuit. Another important point, is that if (and it
57 Artsyman : How can the security companies be sued for this. The boxcutters were not prohibited items, and everyone did more or less everything that they were sup
58 Alpha 1 : Like it or not, it's a litigous society. I'm only a cog on that wheel. Get over it. Like it or not, you and your profession are the reason we're such
59 JGPH1A : Like it or not, it's a litigous society. I'm only a cog on that wheel. Get over it. Sounds a bit like " I was just following orders... " Everyone has
60 Artsyman : It is bizarre how litigous a society it is here in the US. It is reknowned for it world over. There seems to be almos no accountability at all for any
61 777guy : All this reminds me of lawsuits blaming gun manufacturers for the acts of criminals using weapons to kill someone. Ridiculous! My best suggestion is
62 N79969 : You guys are throwing around a lot of false analogies. The people bringing this suit are nothing like those who sue because their coffee was hotter th
63 Greg : NonRevKing: You likely did have a claim. I hope you saw an attorney if your damages were not covered by insurance... Hey, my conscience is very clear
64 777guy : If you are all pissed because it generates a lot of money..well, that's not my problem. Actually I love money but only what I justly deserve.
65 Workbench : Wonderful news!!!! This will allow thousands of families to finally get their just due compensation. I am suprised that this did not happen sooner. I
66 MaverickM11 : "Didn't the Italian President say that "judges were sick in the head" or something like that? Well I seldom agree with that ugly guy but in this case
67 NonRevKing : NonRevKing: You likely did have a claim. I hope you saw an attorney if your damages were not covered by insurance... No, I didn't have a claim, that s
68 Greg : Oh, I misunderstood you. I thought it actually happened since you stated it as fact. Guess that makes you a liar (?). And by all means, don't let us s
69 NonRevKing : The ends justify the means... they trusted their well being to common carriers which failed to protect them. Wrong! UA and AA did exactly what was req
70 UAL-Fan : This is America where people sue for ANYTHING and blame everyone but themselves for everything that goes wrong in their lives. I don't know how these
71 Post contains images TWAMD-80 : Oh yeah, I'm sure AA and UA knew exactly what the terrorists were planning how could they let that happen? TW
72 Greg : Actually, the airline's failure to protect the flight crew, and therefore the passengers, by not having secure cockpit doors is the responsibility of
73 Workbench : Nonrevking- You stated that UA and AA did exactly what the FAA required them to do. That is the point! They could not have voluntarily done more? They
74 Elwood64151 : Mexicana757: You can't sue a judge in this country. Lgbguy: I wouldn't say all lawyers are without common sense. But enough of them are, and can twist
75 NonRevKing : Fact: The cockpit doors were up to FAA standards at that time. Fact: The weapons the terrorists had were legal to bring onto an aircraft at that time.
76 Greg : The verdicts out of this case will likely make the skies much safer for everyone. So, in effect, we will all benefit. Regret that it may be at the cos
77 Thunder9 : >>The suits will answer many questions that the victim's families feel have been evaded >> by the gov;t. Greg -- If your point has any truth to it, th
78 Flashmeister : The verdicts out of this case will likely make the skies much safer for everyone. So, in effect, we will all benefit. What a load of crap. The only wa
79 NonRevKing : Please explain how DL, NW, CO and US (who are named in the suit), PANYNJ, Boeing, and the WTC themselves are in anyway responsible for this? Answer th
80 Greg : Actually, I think it will make the system safer...if for no other reason than the airlines will demand it so they are not liable for further instances
81 4holer : Greg, You obviously believe that bringing such lawsuits forward is some kind of noble quest or calling to keep the rest of us safer. We disagree, but
82 Post contains images 777guy : I am going to sue the last airline I flew. The basis of my lawsuit is as follows: A- The plane arrived on time B- They were courteous to me C- No one
83 N79969 : If the attorneys bringing these legal actions against airlines are bad, would that make the lawyers that fought equally hard against this ruling -good
84 NonRevKing : There is a difference between actually having negligence, and the "throw it against the wall and see if it sticks theory" where negligence can be crea
85 L.1011 : To all those who think this is a worthy lawsuit. Workbench, hindsight is always 20-20. Yeah now we realize the threat that weak cockpit doors and box
86 4holer : N79969, You see, that, to me, is part of the problem. These folks filing such lawsuits ensure that TWO teams of lawyers are employed and paid. Well pa
87 Post contains images EmiratesA345 : "Low and behold I'm not going to defend myself from a coffee shop supervisor. Huge surprise!" what's your point? Do u realize how much older you are t
88 Greg : Not to be rude, but the only people's opinions I care about are those that sit on a jury that determine my cases--I could care less about what an avia
89 Post contains images Cfalk : Greg, I might agree with your position if: 1) ...The suit was filed against Osama Bin Ladin & his band of merry men. They were the ones who decided to
90 N79969 : 4-Holer, Assume for a moment, that lawyers stopped taking cases such as these. Take them out of the equation. And that chaplains took their place in t
91 4holer : Furthermore, That the airlines now reinforced the doors is evidence ONLY that the world has changed. Reality and the realm of possibility in this worl
92 N79969 : 4-Holer, I posted this in another thread: Greg actually makes a valid point. I think the families of those on board the airplanes (but not in the Towe
93 4holer : N79969, In your response to your last. I do not call for elimination of the profession. Rather, I would like to see an end to the liberties being take
94 Hole_courtney : Ok, this was sent to me by someone from Puerto Rico who says they aren't registered, but wanted to post in this topic. If i was had by a con artist or
95 Flashmeister : Spoken as a lifelong Democrat: Actions like this lawsuit will definitely prompt more Americans to listen to Republicans when they go on about tort ref
96 Tbear815 : Politics, who's to blame, where does the base of this pyramid of travesty begin? Greg, I do respect most of your posts with regard to aviation matters
97 JGPH1A : Well now, be fair to Greg - in all seriousness, everyone is entitled to the due process of law, no matter how heinous the crime of which they are accu
98 Post contains images Ikarus : The solution is simple. Once, I saw a kitchen knife in a shop, with a cautionary warning "Keep out of children" Once, I saw a microwave with warnings
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