Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
To All Those Who Doubt If The 7E7 Is Going Forward  
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5684 times:

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents to the continuing debate as to whether or not the 7E7 is actually going to go forward.

I just finished a 4-month stint with BCA Information Systems, specifically supporting finance. And without divulging anything confidential, I can tell you that, at least in my mind, the 7E7 is 99.5% sure to go forward.

BCA is devoting a SIGNIFICANT portion of it's funding for 2004 for projects which are for the 7E7. If the 7E7 doesn't go forward, they'd be wasting millions. 7E7 is pretty much bulletproof. Within Boeing, anything that has 7E7 attached to it, gets whatever it wants. Many of these projects have a horrible pain/gain ratio, but because they're a 7E7 enabler, they're getting the green light from the various funding gates (SIDT, IWG, etc..)

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5591 times:

The 7E7 is already in advanced planning stages. Those who still think Boeing is not going to build it should be few in number by now and shrinking daily. These might be the same people who are still saying the A380 will not fly. They'll deny it 'till the very end. . .when the tires lift from the runway.

To say Boeing will not build the 7E7 is basically saying, "There will never be a 787, and there will not ever be a replacement for the 757 or 767." And that's simply not true.



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5561 times:

That's nice - but just not that sharksfin tail - makes it look like its got a surfboard strapped to the roofrack.

User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5529 times:

Granted, appearances are important; but they are small in significance compared to performance.

And besides, I happen to think the "sharkfin tail" is sweet looking. I think the 7E7 (especially the one that surfaced with the Delta livery) is stunning!


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3996 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5512 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

That's good news. It does look like the 7E7 Dreamliner will become reality in 2008. It will sure be given the official green light and be formally launched sometimes next year with at least one major airline placing a firm order. In six months from now, we'll know who the launch customer is.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineTravellin'man From United States of America, joined May 2001, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5443 times:

That's good news. The major source of concern remains whether Stonecipher and McDonnell keep their greedy paws off the program, let it have all the money it needs, and not starve it for the sake of "Shareholder Value", as we have been discussing in the last week in other threads. If those clowns had been on board in the early 90's, I shudder to think what would have become of the 777.


It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12884 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5393 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

While I have absolutely no doubt that BCA is 100.00% behind the 7E7, project go-ahead requires the approval of the full Boeing board. And from everything that I've read about their business priorities, I wouldn't be prepared to bet my house on it.

I hope it does fly (although I don't think it will look much like the original), because BCA needs it, and the world needs at least two healthy aircraft manufacturers.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineSinlock From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1652 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5370 times:

Anyone have a link to the "Delta" picture? I lost the link.


My Country can beat up your Country....
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5363 times:

I can tell you right now, I would bet everything I own that this goes forward. I can't tell you how many hours we spent in our cubicles discussing the current situation. Much like the 747 situation, Boeing really is "betting the company" on this project. There is only one positive outcome for Boeing in this, that the 7E7 is a success. If Boeing either: a.) fails to make the plane, or b.) fails to make a plane that performs and sells well, then Boeing is finished. Simply put, we do not have the resources, or the time to start another project. Our credibility would be shot, and I would wager to say that Boeing would be largely out of the commercial aircraft business in 25 years if the 7E7 does not come off.

The 7E7 HAS to go through, and has to do well. We all know that, otherwise we're all out of a job. We are all feeling the pressure, the intensity and the determination to do this right. Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that we will emerge from this victorious and that the 7E7 will be right up there with every other quality airplane that we have ever made. But in the event that it isn't, we're finished.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5348 times:

Do they have customers for it yet ? AB waited till they had letters of intent for 100 aircraft before giving the go ahead for the A380, didn't they ? Or is this the go ahead to go and try and find customers ?

User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5344 times:

Here's the link for the Delta picture:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1185519/

[Edited 2003-09-11 17:55:10]

User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5327 times:

No, this is the go-ahead to build. And I have a feeling that they have customers already, but they are keeping it quiet until everything is hammered out.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but that's one difference between Airbus and Boeing: Airbus will announce anything that comes it's way, even if it's not a sure thing. Boeing tends to keep it's cards close and not announce anything until it's for sure. Sort of a "don't count your chickens before the eggs hatch" kind of thing. Boeing has always been known for being a very conservative shop...


User currently offlineTransGlobal2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5282 times:

My God, that's beautiful in the Delta colors. I hope they do not change the look of the airplane, but according to some recent posts it looks like they may. Let's hope they keep this unique and gorgeous design.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5189 times:

BCAInfoSys: I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but that's one difference between Airbus and Boeing: Airbus will announce anything that comes it's way, even if it's not a sure thing. Boeing tends to keep it's cards close and not announce anything until it's for sure. Sort of a "don't count your chickens before the eggs hatch" kind of thing. Boeing has always been known for being a very conservative shop...

Why should anybody flame you for that? I just don´t see evidence for this statement... At least as far as I´ve watched things proceed, it´s Boeing whose track is littered with mis-started projects in the past years... Maybe I just don´t remember, but which "paper planes" had Airbus announced and then buried again?

Don´t get me wrong, I wish Boeing every bit of success with the 7E7 and any further projects. I just don´t understand your statement.


User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5166 times:

I wasn't referring to mis-started projects, I was referring to orders. Granted, I don't have any evidence to back up what I've said; I've just heard a lot from various people I've spoken with (inside and outside of Boeing), that John Leahy loves to jump on every chance he can to slam Boeing. I've be told that a lot of their "announced" orders are really orders that are tenative, at best, which later don't come to fruition.

What I meant by my post is that Boeing (to my knowledge), has never announced an order that wasn't signed, sealed and delivered.

Granted, I am not very knowledge in this subject so I could very well be wrong...


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5155 times:

The whale-tail looks nice for Delta, but it will look pretty wierd with a more geometric tail design eg. AF or SAA. Besides, I'm wondering if Joe Passenger will go for it - it does looks like its been left in the sun too long and warped.

And what's with the slight bubble over the forward fuselage ? Is that for extra-headroom or larger overhead bins for First ? Or maybe the lurv-cabins as proposed by BCAInfoSys in the post about overhead crew rests earlier today.

[Edited 2003-09-11 18:22:12]

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 16, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5135 times:

Ah, I hadn´t noticed you were talking about order announcements.

I don´t take marketeers too seriously anyway... And the schoolyard-like bickering between the camps has always been a little silly on both sides...  Wink/being sarcastic


User currently onlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5052 posts, RR: 44
Reply 17, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5111 times:

Airbus will announce anything that comes it's way, even if it's not a sure thing. Boeing tends to keep it's cards close and not announce anything until it's for sure.

Sonic Cruiser, 747X,... No need tosay more.

I've be told that a lot of their "announced" orders are really orders that are tenative, at best, which later don't come to fruition.

Every order that is announced by Airbus is AT LEAST an MoU or LoI. The same goes for Boeing. Would you care to name some of the orders which were 'tentative' and didn't come to fruition?

What I meant by my post is that Boeing (to my knowledge), has never announced an order that wasn't signed, sealed and delivered.

You might want to check your history. Both announce their orders at the same stage: when an MoU or LoI is signed.


User currently offlineSjoerd From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5021 times:

The question is : what kind of aircraft will the 7E7 be ? Sure Boeing can build it, but will it have all the characteristics Boeing promises ? What will it look like ? The current images are just propaganda, they want the 7E7 to be perceived as innovative and modern.
Maybe it will do all Boeing promises, but let's see and wait.



Flanders + Wallonnia + Brussels = the UNITED STATES of BELGIUM
User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1712 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4822 times:

Can anyone name an airplane that Boeing designed from a clean sheet of paper that didn't perform as advertised?

I can't remember any that didn't meet the stated performance requirements.


User currently offlineSjoerd From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4683 times:

The 7E7 is not designed yet, they're still working on it.


Flanders + Wallonnia + Brussels = the UNITED STATES of BELGIUM
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4672 times:

The pictures you see of the 7E7 now are based on early windtunnel tests on several proof of concept models.
Expect the final product to be different in detail, not principle (that goes for the outside, the inside is of course highly dependent on what the customers want).

I agree that Boeing is perceived to do less well because they don't announce orders which aren't signed.
Airbus will announce a letter of intent (or even an agreement to sign a letter of intent) as a firm order, then a few months later announce the same order again when it becomes a firm order (if that happens).
Boeing won't announce anything until the deal is signed.

I've also seen Airbus announcing options as being firm orders. The KLM deal for 6 A330s and 16 options was announced by Airbus as an order for 22 aircraft for example, which is a blatant lie (and premature at that because at that stage it was an LOI only)...



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4648 times:

Very well put Jwenting, you enunciated my thoughts much better then I could. You've just made my respected user's list.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4525 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4579 times:

BCAInfoSys,

First of all, welcome to the forums.  Smile

Second, I really am curious, but what's your opinion of the 7e7 design? It's a little too early to tell what the final version will be like but do you think it'll look closer to the one in the Delta colours, linked above, or do you think it'll look closer to the concept drawing on Boeing's website, which shows a much more "sharklike" nose to the plane?

I don't expect that you'll have any inside info. I'm just interested in your opinion. I'm HOPING that the nose of the plane will look just like the one picture in the Delta image....it looks like a comet nose ans is really appealing. The shark nose of the other image...doesn't do much for me. Your thoughts?



User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4536 times:

I think it's the 'concept car' scenario. I imagine the production bird will have a more conventional look....likely using the same section 41 from the 767/777 (that would save design cost...and tooling).

25 Codeshare : I'm a believer! They better keep working on it, because 767s are getting old.
26 DIA : That Delta pic looks great, but I'm sure the Delta c/s would look great on the A380 as well. . . so I'm not surprised. I think Delta's tail colors hel
27 RayChuang : In my opinion, Boeing has already gotten an internal go-ahead for the 7E7 based on the following customers: 1. Lufthansa (LH). LH wants a true A300B/A
28 Post contains images BCAInfoSys : I for one am not entirely sure what the final design will be, and some of it I'm not at liberty to say. This summer I got a look at some of the things
29 BCAInfoSys : Well Ray, I can tell you that from what I know, it has not yet gotten the go-ahead. In the mind of Boeing employees, we have no doubt that it's going
30 Post contains images Aloha717200 : BCA: Are you at liberty to say whether some of the designs for the 7e7 you saw had a nose similar to the "Delta nose" rather than the shark nose? Are
31 Post contains images Lehpron : of course it is going forward, it's the 787 first flight summer 2009 [ ], it looks like everything they have ever done in the last 30 years and there
32 Post contains images AvObserver : Thank you, BCAInfoSys, for your insight; you're probably as close to a Boeing insider as we've got. If any Boeing employees in the the know are airlin
33 Post contains images BCAInfoSys : It really is put up or shutup time. There's kind of a fatalistic mentality running around. With as deep as the cuts have gone, and with the stakes as
34 BCAInfoSys : And you wanna know the reason why Airbus could survive an A380 flop? They're not liable for a dime of the R&D if they don't break even! Risk free deve
35 AvObserver : Right, BCAInfoSys. They don't have to pay the A380 government loans for 33% of development cost back if the progam isn't profitable. Still, they'd tak
36 Klaus : Dream all you want, but BCA wouldn´t be allowed to fail any more than Airbus... Boeing commercial is considered a strategic asset to the US economy (
37 Cloudy : Dream all you want, but BCA wouldn´t be allowed to fail any more than Airbus... Boeing commercial is considered a strategic asset to the US economy (
38 Post contains images BCAInfoSys : Contracted out is right.. outsourcing is the name of the game. It really cuts deep, especially for those of us in IS. Everything is being sent oversea
39 Klaus : That´s exactly what I meant by "Enron-izing": Dumping one core competency after the other until only an empty shell with maximum short-term "sharehol
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
IT'S Official! The 7E7 Is Going Ahead! posted Tue Dec 16 2003 23:12:38 by BCAInfoSys
To All Those Who Hate Lufthansa posted Sun Feb 10 2002 17:23:55 by B737-700
What The Hell Is Going On At LGA? posted Fri Sep 8 2006 16:08:33 by JFKLGANYC
How Can You Order If The Design Is Not Clear? posted Wed Apr 26 2006 13:23:24 by Art
OS To Iraq, Erbil, Who Ll Be The Next posted Thu Feb 2 2006 13:18:20 by PRGLY
What The Hell Is Going On At MCO?!?! posted Fri Feb 18 2005 01:51:07 by JFKLGANYC
If The A330 Is So Successful, Then Why The A350? posted Thu Feb 3 2005 18:18:40 by PyroGX41487
For All Those Who Doubted Virgin... posted Mon Dec 6 2004 17:19:45 by N2805WWest
Who Will Launch The 7E7? posted Wed Dec 17 2003 00:58:29 by PVD757
Without opening the pic, can you tell if the aircraft is ex-TWA posted Mon Sep 29 2003 21:59:41 by 727LOVER