CanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 3 Posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5517 times:
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — Two Islamic leaders from Toronto were denied entry into the United States today after being detained for 16 hours at a Florida airport by U.S. government agents who told them they picked the wrong day — Sept. 11 — to fly, an Islamic civil rights group said.
Ahmed Kutty, 59, and Sheik Abdul Hamid, 37, were detained this afternoon at the Broward County Jail, said Altaf Ali, executive director of the Florida chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.
They were denied entry into the United States and were booked for a late afternoon flight back to Toronto, Ali said.
"I'm totally flabbergasted," Ali said.
"I've heard some crazy things in the past about people being detained but this beats them all."
FBI agents interviewed the men yesterday at the request of U.S. Customs officials but did not charge them with any crime or order them to remain detained, said spokeswoman Judy Orihuela.
U.S. customs and immigration officials did not immediately return phone messages today seeking information on who ordered them back to Canada.
The imams were flying through Fort Lauderdale yesterday to Orlando, where they planned to raise money for an Islamic school in Canada, Ali said.
They were stopped and searched at the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport and agents found a business card for an Islamic organization on one of the men, Ali said.
"One of the agents told them: 'You guys have picked the wrong time to fly,'" Ali said.
One of the agents told the imams the U.S. government had reason to believe the organization on the business card was tied to terrorism. The organization was not immediately identified.
The men were held at the airport from 9:30 a.m. yesterday until 1:30 a.m. today, Ali said.
"Someone can be detained and locked up for several hours just because of a business card — that is so un-American," Ali said.
I was told if I didn't have anything nice to say, not to say it. I'm going to keep my mouth shut on this.
EmiratesA345 From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 2123 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5397 times:
"You're right. The U.S. shouldn't investigate people entering the country, and shouldn't deny them entry, especially if they're muslim."
I see the sarcasm in this part. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems that you are saying that they should ESPECIALLY investigate persons who are Muslim or of Islamic origin. Please do explain.
Give me a whole story such as the above, about your incident with the Canadian customs officers, and then I'll tell you if they were out of line or not.
Also, age means nothing. Just because you were 8 doesn't mean you are harmless. Do you remember the incident when the airport security found a gun, or knife (can't remember which exactly) in a child's teddy bear?
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16456 posts, RR: 55
Reply 7, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5301 times:
I'm glad to see we're being tough at our boarders.
I agree. If North American Muslims are upset at the addl security being leveled at them, perhaps it could have been prevented had the 19 9-11 murderers not been aided and abeted by segments of the North American Muslim communities. What goes around comes around.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
Bobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5288 times:
If North American Muslims are upset at the addl security being leveled at them, perhaps it could have been prevented had the 19 9-11 murderers not been aided and abeted by segments of the North American Muslim communities. What goes around comes around.
If any of those individuals had aided and abetted, I'm fairly sure that they'd either be in hiding, or in Guantanamo Bay, by now.
Or do you think that entire religious communities should take the blame for the acts of a few maniacs?
Spacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 3180 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5260 times:
EmiratesA345: You correctly detected sarcasm in that statement. I guess the problem with sarcasm is that although you make it understood that you disagree witht he point being made, you don't really make your own point clear. I believe that people should be interrogated (heh) equally upon entering the country, and that even if a white baptist dude is found with documents indicating a connection with a possible terrorist organization (charity, militant group, etc.) that he be treated like these people.
"Securing" the borders isn't a cure-all for possible terror plots, but it still is a measure that can be taken.
And on that canada incident... evidently at the time there was a rash of kidnappings in the Windsor area. Kids didn't need an ID to go back and forth, and I express the darker italian side of the family more than anyone else (read: I don't look like them from far away). Unfortunately, i had also learned the "don't talk to strangers" lesson from sesame street, or captain kangaroo... I didn't answer the border guard's questions of "are these your parents?". Hey, they acted accordingly too!
Rongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5250 times:
So, YyZ717, you feel that we should detain all American presbyterians at our borders because they may be coming here to kill the medical staff of abortion clinics, unless they can demonstrate that they spoke up against such actions in the United States?
If you do not agree with this proposition I would like to understand the difference between doing that and detaining any Muslim.
HlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5210 times:
There are still Al Quaida cells hiding out in Dearborn Michigan
I'm sorry, but I for one am not feeling sorry for those Muslims that were held in Ft. Lauderdale.
It makes FAR more sense than searching and detaining Grandma. I never heard of 80 year old American ladies flying planes into buildings and Ali is probably making half of that up like what the agent said to get a lawsuit out of it.
Its reality, you gotta expect it now. He could have driven or taken a bus. There were warnings going around about attacks on the Anniversary of Sept 11, of course people are going to look twice at Muslims or those of Middle Eastern appearance, hell even dark skin. I get wierd looks occassionally when I fly a plane because I am dark skinned too.
Rongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5149 times:
"Its reality, you gotta expect it now"
Therein lies the problem. We now live in a paranoid world. That is the triumph of September 11th, even if Al Quaiada never do another thing.
No, I don't really blame the United States, but I have stopped taking on American contracts. Not because I'm scared of terrorist attacks (I still work in Asia without thinking about it), but because I can't stand the hassle of entering or being in the USA with a foreign passport. Being involved in a terrorist incident is still 1 in a billion odds, but encountering an obnoxious security situation is a guaranteed daily experience for the foreign business traveller in North America
Most Americans don't know where my country is, so they place it in the Middle East by default, just to be on the safe side. So in North America I find myself becoming paranoid about their paranoia ("Searched 6 times out of 7 boarding domestic flights. It must be because I'm foreign.").
Yet I never felt like that about doing business in the UK when IRA bombiing was at its peak.
By the way, I am white and pale skinned. Never been brown in my life - the sun turns me red. I keep away from it.
B747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5138 times:
I can't stand the hassle of entering or being in the USA with a foreign passport.... encountering an obnoxious security situation is a guaranteed daily experience for the foreign business traveller in North America
Amen! You couldn't have put it better. I relocated my North American operations completely from Atlanta to Toronto last year for that same reason after being hassled by the INS over lawd only knows what. I'm still willing to take on US clients, but only if they are willing to be serviced from Toronto or Vancouver.
Doing business in the US is simply not worth the hassle factor anymore. If and when they decide to make things more conducive, I'll be glad to go back in there but until then Canada will be getting my company's tax dollar.
WNfan From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5099 times:
Sometimes I am ashamed to be an American. Our collective reaction to the awful events of two years ago, in my opinion, is atrocious. Locking up people in Guantánamo Bay for two years, without proper legal recourse, is anti-American and fundamentally wrong.
I don't blame you non-Americans who choose not to enter our country and prefer to ally yourselves with business partners in other nations. It makes complete sense from a convenience standpoint.
A vast minority of Americans have ventured to travel to other parts of the world; yet we want to dictate policy around the globe. Personally, I consider myself a citizen of the world who happens to live in the United States. I continue to hope that someday my fellow countrymen can learn to accept and understand the opinions and realities of people from the rest of the world. In my opinion, that is best accomplished by travelling to and living in other societies throughout our planet we call Earth. Unfortunately, it's rare to find an American who has done so.
Uadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5062 times:
hi...put ure crack pipe down and be realistic..have u been to other parts of this big "mother planet"??????u go to the middle east or parts of "western europe" and they profile like a bunch of drunken monkeys...try going thru lhr on ure way to dub and have a british immig officer quiz u on who r u vistiing in ireland ...or see ure mom go thru that.......am i a ira terrorist??????
Lehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5040 times:
Would you kids quit acting like WNfan is not allowed an opinion for God's Sake, so what about how he feels? I don't see how that bothers you, it can never impact your life, YOU are making it a big deal for/to yourself -- it just became your problem, end of situtation.
Though I suspect the opposite, can you guys possibly reply to this in any way without being hyper-sensitive?
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
Stefandotde From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5002 times:
UAL767ord - I remember a chatreply from an us-guy who was angry about spanish police. They stopped him and he got problems cause he had no passport with him. He asked, what happens to the EU-countries.
Sorry, UAL767, now there is a complaint against us-imigration and now it's upside-down?
The US-citizen didn't have a passport with him ... lol Just a "Eih, folks, i am AMERICAN" is no reason to pass immigration. And passport should belong into hand-luggage, not into checked baggage.
: WNfan was surely meaning that he is feeling uncomfortable in a difficult situation. Ashamed was surely no the right word he should have used. Try to u
: How in the world did he get on an airplane without a passport. You need one to be able to check in
: Sorry, in my post I meant to say "A vast majority of Americans have never ventured to travel to other parts of the world." Part of my point is that we
: He did, L188 - he made photocopy of passport and id-card and entered plane with that garbage. When he left plane they didn't accept photocopies. Next
: WFfan, why should you put a fish out its bowl, if it is feeling comfortable inside of one only bowl ? Some fishes feel comfortable in one bowl some ot
: Kilavoud, yes, it should be respected. But a fish shouldn't talk about life and culture in another bowl and give his "high-quality"-opinion about othe
: Stefandotde. You are right. For this I will give you one more RR, then you will have two. All the best. Kilavoud.
: Switzerland twelve points, la suisse, douze points. lol Thanks a lot, i don't know why i have 1 published RR - you are my 3rd
: "CanadiaEH: I was told if I didn't have anything nice to say, not to say it. I'm going to keep my mouth shut on this." Hehehe, Canadia. Same happened
: Tell me the connection between WNfan and being a liberal or a democrat. I don't see one. WNfan had the audacity to question the garbage the Bushies ar
: CanadaEH Was something wrong with the paperwork? Visa's expired? Expired picture ID? It could be any of 1000 reasons for the detainment, this does not
: Lots of questions, Midnightmike. But I am sure if there was something wrong with the paperwork, the immigration would have informed press too. They di
: Stefandotde Emirates is an established company, so no problems there mate. The "11" students that reported for flight training all had business cards
: You want to show me the crater in New York, Midnight? Wanna talk about foreign-politics? Could show you other pix from things that happened before 9/1
: Now I do have one comment, why would Two Islamic leaders be traveling on September 11? That is just plain stupid! Yes, they did have the right, but ho
: The 9-11 terrorist ruined the US open door policy for all people from the Middle East. Absolutely. If Muslims want to be angry at someone for screwing
: Stefandotde Sorry for boring you, but we need to study history so that we do not repreat the mistakes. Should I talk about the first World Trade Cent
: MidnightMike - I am not interrested into political discussions with you. But remember who were the criminal people who supported Taliban, who supporte
: This is good news, I am relieved to note that the government is taking firm action on keeping potential terrorists out of the US. Right now, Canada's
: This is good news 16 hours, without any charges or reason to be held, comments like "you picked the wrong day to travel" then being sent back home? I
: WGW, i don't call it "unamerican" unfortunately it's american in the meantime. A friend in the US told me: Every person who is against war, is an anti
: The 9-11 terrorist ruined the US open door policy for all people from the Middle East. Unfortunately it also tainted the perception some Americans hav
: The Muslim leaders in America or elsewhere have still not come out and openly condemned 9-11, nor have they done a whole lot of charity work for it. Y
: UAL 777: "WNFAN, Your comments are making me sick, what are you a liberal democrat?" Means: all americans who have different oppinion to us-administra
: Ok.. I am not a fan of Bush's war designed to keep the US citizens from watching the economy crater and his mis management of government supervision o
: Would be happy, Acvitale, if you come to germany and we would keep you at the boarder for 16 hours cause you have a business-card of a republican with
: "The Muslim leaders in America or elsewhere have still not come out and openly condemned 9-11" I agree that the muslim community should've been more v
: Midnight Mike: Now I do have one comment, why would Two Islamic leaders be traveling on September 11? That is just plain stupid! This is the worst com
: I am a muslim and to be honest I believe that the United States has every right to refuse entry to whomever they please and as was mentioned before in
: I have heared from middle-east companies that lots of muslim passengers don't fly to the US any longer. They prefer travelling to Australia and New Ze
: Listen guys, I know America is the land of the free and the home of the brave, but when you find two Muslims..... flying in the USA ON SEPTEMBER 11TH,
: It wasn't a suspected terror group. America isn't the land of the free if people are denied access to the US simply because they're Muslim - September
: Airport security is a bit overdone, but the Muslims should have been more sensitive to 9-11 and the memories of 9-11 and postponed their trip by a day
: Why? A whole race has to stay at home one day because the rest of the nation is paranoid?
: No way man, any one can and should fly. But if your holding a business card of a suspected terror group, weather you are muslim or not, you are asking
: Airways6max, : " ...but the Muslims should have been more sensitive to 9-11 and the memories of 9-11 and postponed their trip by a day. " So many thin
: Noise, they didn't have a business card of a suspected terrorist group.
: **The land of the free? Eih, wake up, land of freedom ended with election from George W. - ooops, did i say "election"? Sorry, was wrong. It's ironic
: The bottom line is that these guys sufferred a minor indignity. Emphasis on minor. Big deal. The purpose of their travel was Islamic charity. While ch
: Hlywd: "I love how people from other countries are such experts on what goes on in the U.S." I think it's dangerous when people from special nations c
: Would there be nearly as many complaints about the closely-contested election, had Gore won or been proclaimed by the Supreme Court? And how would tha
: HlywdCatft is correct. Many people equate cynicism about the U.S. with worldliness and intellect. This pre-dates the Bush Administration and 9/11. The
: **I think it's dangerous when people from special nations can't look beyond the end of one's nose. And yes, I think we are well-informed.** By your go
: Anyway - for me sep 11 was a good day , partying with friends and not thinking about things that happened 2 years ago and what a crazy american presid
: Anyway - for me sep 11 was a good day , partying with friends and not thinking about things that happened 2 years ago and what a crazy american presid
: This was the first recorded time in the history of travel that people have been detained at a border crossing. Nothing like this has ever happened in
: **Anyway - for me sep 11 was a good day , partying with friends and not thinking about things that happened 2 years ago and what a crazy american pres
: Hlywd, I don't hate Americans, I have good friends there. But they are bad, very bad: they are liberal democratics. And I am resecting these people a
: 777236ER, they did have business cards of a suspected terror group. Why do you think they were stopped in the first place? Who told you they didn't?
: What's wrong with partying on September11? If it is, let's ban parties on the days on every anniversaries of Hiroshima & Nagasaki, let's ban parties o
: 777236ER, they did have business cards of a suspected terror group. Why do you think they were stopped in the first place? You're not getting the poin
: Where is the proof that this "card" was connected to terrorist groups? I've yet to hear of any such proof..
: The author of this thread is a little bitter because he was warned about insulting other users who did not adhere to his Stalinoid ideology in the non
: What's wrong with partying on September11? Absolutely nothing. It's his own personal choice. You need to re-read my original post on the subject, as I
: stefan, I think it was you who said that more and more Muslims are flying to AUSTRALIA and NEW ZEALAND and they just want to spend holidays there? The
: The main point here is this: Two persons entered the US on September 11th, carrying business cards from an organization that the US government believe
: "By the way, Stefen, do you respect other Americans who have a different viewpoint than your own, or are they just ???brainwashed??? and stupid? You??
: Am I bitter, no. If you want a hard link, here you go: http://www.mytelus.com/news/article.do?pageID=world_home&articleID=1408138 http://canada.com/na
: These measures would by no means be permanent: as soon as Canada introduces respectable immigration controls that meet US standards, these additional
: "Your rights as an American citizen are being ignored and put on hold for "the war on terrorism", and your ok with that?" No, they aren't. Not one con
: And reading up on todays WORLD news... BAGHDAD (AP) - Gunfire erupted throughout Fallujah on Saturday and mourners shouted "America is the enemy of Al
: Ok, you asked me if I think all americans are brain-washed. What shall I answer about that question when I read your last threat, WGW? It's exhausting
: the government of the US is blaming everything on Sep 11th, and as a result, they are stripping the americans civil liberties away. look at the new "p
: I wouldn't say so. Youforget that Europe heavily embraced US culture. One of the most popular chains of restaurants in Europe (and in the rest of the
: **Canada is looked at (in the worlds eyes) as a very welcoming, relaxed, and friendly place. The US is viewed as confrontational and ignorant. Believe
: **Music knows no boundaries. The majority of the bands I listen to are from the US. Is that a sign of cultural respect? No. I simply enjoy the music t
: No I was not, nor would I have booed the US anthem - out of respect. Some people protest in the streets, some people chose to boo the anthem. Was it r
: dont you get it hlywd, most of the world hates america. bush declaring wars wherever, america trys to be the policeman of the world. how about that am
: "And I bet you were one of those at the Montreal Canadiens hockey game that booed the Star Spangled Banner" That would be me! And I enjoyed every mome
: Religion is the cause of all evil on this earth.
: Topic has gone way off course and is being locked.