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Unfairly Arrested Pilot Sues USA (FBI) For $20m  
User currently offlineIkarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4760 times:

BBC story

Apparently, a muslim pilot living in the UK was arrested, kept 5 months in jail, and then released. The US suspected him of training the hijackers, but apart from the fact that he is a Muslim, no evidence for that theory is mentioned in the news article. He asked for an apology, did not get one, and now he is sueing for $20 million.

Pretty sad that his career is ruined (no airline will employ him now) because of a false accusation and arrest...

Even worse, 5 months in jail as innocent.

$20 million is, of course, a ridiculous sum, like all US damage lawsuits, but to be fair he deserves some compensation (if the article is correct and he is innocent). Maybe 1/20th of what he is sueing for would be fair?

Regards

Ikarus

[Edited 2003-09-16 15:40:03]

[Edited 2003-09-16 15:48:17]

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7415 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4694 times:

If he is innocent, which is probably the case, he should sue them for $500 millions...!

All these cases of illegaly arrested and jailed pilots or F/A (VS ) in the U.S are getting ridiculous and reflect the real paranoia of certain Police or Security forces in this country. Instead of always thinking they-are-the-best-in-the-world, and acsusing everybody of anything all the time, often without any proof, they should begin to investigate what is wrong in their system.


User currently offlineManairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4672 times:

A sad indictment of the USA's system of 'justice'. This story was covered in some detail here in the UK. Despite many requests, the US authorities repeatedly refused to provide any evidence whatsoever against this individual.

User currently offlineIkarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

Sorry, perhaps I should clarify: He was arrested on behalf of the US by the UK. He sues the FBI for accusing him and putting the warrant out there (without any evidence), but he was arrested and imprisoned in the UK, under some UK terrorism act of 2000. The UK refused to extradite him to the US when it became apparent that there was no case, just more or less blind accusation.

User currently offlineIkarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4620 times:

and no, $500 million is not warranted.

Put it like this:

-career ruined: say £30,000 for 20 years (I'm sure he will find another job, just not as pilot)
-dream ruined: buy him a Cessna (£150,000) and pay all associated fees for life
-5 months in prison: £10,000 per month for the emotional distress for him and £5000 for his family
-false accusations, malevolent intent, etc.: £50,000

=£875,000

That is what he should get (IMO), provided he wasn't raped in prison or otherwise physically tortured.


Sure, it'd be nice for the FBI and the US to pay heavily for every injustice, but to whom? He was a victim and deserves compensation, but when it comes to punitive payments, why should he get those as well?


User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4599 times:

Lets just sue sue sue for every injustice we have. Keep those lawyers employed!!! I could have made a couple million if I sued for every little time I thought something was done injustly to me too. Give him a $5 mill settlement and get on with it.

User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4569 times:

There's a difference between compensation and punitive damages... it could be the latter?
(although UK courts are, I think, very shy about them compared to the USA)



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineIkarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4556 times:

Give him a $5 mill settlement and get on with it.

With what? Innocently accusing, arresting, imprisoning and, quite likely, eventually executing people, as well as reducing the freedoms until the "land of the free" becomes the "land of the policed"? I know it's what the US government will continue to do for a while yet, but I don't think it's right to encourage them...

Regards

Ikarus


User currently offlineOkie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3100 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4508 times:

Definitely does not seem to be any accountability for the government in the law. I don't think until a few people take the situation to task as mentioned that much will change.

User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4470 times:

A jury will decide the damages if it goes to trial.
In all likelihood he will settle out of court.
And be deported.

Or just deported.


User currently offlineIkarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4445 times:

deported? Where to? And why? Why should the UK deport him?

User currently offlineManairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4443 times:

Greg - where will he be deported from, and why?

User currently offlineStefandotde From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4375 times:

Same we have in Germany - not with a pilot but with a muslim. US says, he is supporting terrorists. But as we see (also good examples are Blair with his 45 minutes lie and US-lie in UN-meeting): we can't believe the administrations from US and GB.

User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4339 times:

no reason to sue the US. The UK should have done their research before arresting him and are therefore the ones to blame if the arrest was not justified.

But of course this bozo knows he can get more money from a US jury by playing the "me discriminated against innocent foreign person" ploy so he goes for the easy money while in the UK he'd get peanuts.

I wouldn't be surprised if the charges against him were justified if maybe found to be based on evidence that later turned out to be incomplete in which case he's owed zip except an apology.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineManairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4262 times:

Jwenting - the UK was required to arrest him under the treaties that exist between the UK ans US. However, the US was then required to produce evidence against him in order for him to be extradited. The US could not, of course, produce such evidence so the UK authorities released him. In this case the UK has met all of its international obligations whereas the US, not for the first time, has not.

User currently offlineIkarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4256 times:

Jwentig: The UK detained him on behalf of the US. They were the agency that acted, not the one that issued the warrant and made the accusation. If you were arrested innocently and then released almost half a year later without apology, would you sue the local policeman who turned up at your door or the people who organized and caused your arrest?

The UK already did their bit by refusing to extradite him when they weren't provided with any evidence to support the charges. But anyway, the article states that The solicitor said legal action was also planned against the Crown Prosecution Service and police in the UK. , so be sure they are getting their share of legal problems.

Another few quotes:
The pilot was arrested under the Terrorism Act 2000 at his home on 21 September 2001.

When no terrorist charges had been brought against him after five months in jail, he was freed on bail.



So, within 10 days of the attacks they have someone arrested, but for 5 months they keep him imprisoned without finding anything to charge him with? Frankly, that is a scandalous case of judicial malpractice. It seems all the "terrorist act"s do is allow people to be locked up semi-permanently without trial or charge.

Regards

Ikarus


User currently offlineSpk From Thailand, joined Jun 2001, 458 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4155 times:

I'm supporting any anti-terrorism initiatives but this kind of sloppy police work which puts the freedom of innocent people at risk must stop. What the hell is this? Think about it. Now, in the US, the police can arrest you and put you in jail for 5 months, no release on bond, without having the case or evidence against you. This is not a good thing and without proper check and balance (anyone who question the government's action are called "traitor"), the abuse will continue and it'll get back to your life someday.

Again, don't get me wrong. I'm cooperating with all the security measures at the airport without complaining since I know that they do it for our safety. However, giving absolute power to the FBI or any Fed agency to decide who to put in jail first then try to find the evidence later while that individual is suffering (rotting) in jail is plain unacceptable.


User currently offlineIkarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4074 times:

Now, in the US, the police can arrest you and put you in jail for 5 months, no release on bond, without having the case or evidence against you

Except, of course, in this particular case they let the UK, America's little colony, do the dirty work...


User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4022 times:

I would sue them too. He will never get a pilot job again, and he was labeled a "terrorist" when there was no proof that he was. If you were wrongfully accused of being a terrorist, you were thrown in jail for something you never did, wouldn't you sue them too?

User currently offlineFSPilot747 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 3599 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3986 times:

If we 20 million is what he wants, 20 million is what he deserves for what we did to him.


FSP


User currently offlineIkarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3953 times:

Perhaps. If someone can get millions for spilt coffee, then yes, he deserves it, without a doubt. Within the US frame of compensations, his claim is actually quite reasonable, as it is below $100 million  Big grin

But it's the ludicrously high amounts being named in US courts in the first place that I find unrealistic. If I criticize the amounts regularly (and I do), it would be hypocritical of me to suggest that the one victim I sympathize with deserves the money while all others do not.


User currently offlineStefandotde From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3916 times:

@Ikarus:
It's totally different: if an american person is so stupid and puts his coffee onto his crotch, he gets millions. Even if he did it himself.
If a government arrests a non-us-person unjustified, why should the man get millions?
That's consequential, isn't it?

By the way: I like the pix on your member-profile!


User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3916 times:

He was from Algeria.
The president of Algeria spoke on his behalf.

I was half joking about the deportation...I sure the US and UK find that an expediant way to get rid of.....well.....'headaches.'


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6491 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3907 times:

I could have made a couple million if I sued for every little time I thought something was done injustly to me too. Give him a $5 mill settlement and get on with it.

You were jailed for 5 months w/ no evidence against you?  Insane



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineDeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1701 posts, RR: 34
Reply 24, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3867 times:

The only money he deserves is that of lost wages, and those of potential wages had he not been a victim of defamation. So they should add up his pay at the time he was arrested....and give that 5 month tenure. Then calculate the approximate money he would have been appropriated if he were able to continue on with his career for x amount of years. No more...no less.

Bryan



Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
25 Greg : Absolutely wrong! That's only compensatory damages. Punitive damages should be significantly more. You'd feel much more differently if it happened to
26 Gigneil : Absolutely wrong! That's only compensatory damages. Punitive damages should be significantly more. You'd feel much more differently if it happened to
27 Post contains images Ikarus : Greg, you confuse me. On the one hand you suggest his deportation to avoid the "headache" and on the other you think there should be significant punit
28 Post contains images DeltaMD11 : I apologize, I should have pointed out that he should receive punitive damages. To be included....false imprisonment, possibly libel depending on how
29 STT757 : I think this fellow has little to no standing with regards to his case, he is not a US citizen, he was not in the US, nor was he being held by US Auth
30 Navion : I have suggested deletion of this whole thread based upon unsupported political beliefs and flaming accusations. It's very possible the persons postin
31 Ikarus : Flaming? where? What on earth are you talking about?
32 Ikarus : And, frankly, it is aviation related: A pilot is accused of a crime. Not aviation related. A pilot is accused of, in his capacity as pilot, training t
33 MD88Captain : Yes, deletion is an excellent suggestion. However, Ikarus will undoubtedly be upset and may sue. Can't you find some other website to bash all things
34 Navion : Comments about the U.S. being a police state and cynical comments about the "land of the free", the UK being a US puppet etc. are not constructive and
35 Gigneil : Yes, deletion is an excellent suggestion. However, Ikarus will undoubtedly be upset and may sue. Can't you find some other website to bash all things
36 Elwood64151 : Unfortunately for the pilot, sueing a sovereign is very difficult. Even if he wins, he won't collect. It's the same as with the survivors of the 9/11
37 B747-437B : People can not be held more than 72 hours (in the US) without being charged with a crime. Not so. The "Patriot Act" allows the INDEFINITE DETENTION WI
38 Manairport : STT757 - have you completely missed the point or just selectively read this thread? The person concerned was being held at the specific request of the
39 Post contains images DeltaMD11 : Very well-said Elwood. My feelings exactly. Navion: "I want to enjoy this forum, not engage in hearsay and rhetoric by persons not personally involved
40 Spk : This pilot is not asking for an unreasonable compensation. People who suggest that he should only sue for lost wages may need to do some reality check
41 Ikarus : I want to enjoy this forum, not engage in hearsay and rhetoric by persons not personally involved in that to which they're commenting. So what can be
42 Wingman : I agree with many above that this is an egregious breach of justice and the man should be compensated. The sum of course, is absolutely ridiculous and
43 Post contains images Ikarus : As with border detentions, this is the first known case in the EU, US, Canada, and Asia where someone has been falsely accused and imprisoned. No. In
44 KROC : This thread has gotten well off topic and therefore will be locked. KROC
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