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AA Flight, F-15 Fighters Nearly Collide  
User currently offlineLa Carlota From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 358 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2850 times:

From CNN:

American Airlines Flight 490 nearly collided with three military F-15 jet fighters over the skies of Oklahoma Tuesday.
But a disaster was averted when the commercial airliner's on-board collision avoidance system warned the plane to rapidly descend to get out of the flight path of the military jets.
An informed source said initially that an FAA air traffic controller was believed to have made a mistake, but an operational error on the part of the military pilots could not yet be ruled out.
The incident happened about 3 p.m. Tuesday about 15 miles northwest of Tulsa, according to FAA spokesman Tony Molinaro.
The American Airlines MD-80 was flying from Oklahoma City to St. Louis with 86 passengers and five crew members when the captain reported that the plane's Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) warned the plane of heavy traffic in the area, according to American Airlines spokesman Julia Bishop-Cross.
Bishop-Cross said a short time later the system ordered the cockpit to make an immediate descent.
The military F-15s were on their way to Tinker Air Force Base, according to the FAA.
The plane landed at its destination, and four people were taken to the hospital, including a passenger not wearing a seat belt and three flight attendants who were standing at the time of the incident and hit their heads on the cabin ceiling.
Most commercial airplanes are equipped with the TCAS system, which works independently of air traffic control to warn planes of possible midair collisions.
Typically, air traffic controllers would be alerted to military planes in their region and would be responsible for directing them away from commercial air traffic, the FAA said.


Tango Tango Fox
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2737 times:

I wouldn't be surprised if it is the military fighters who are at fault. They were probably up there hotdogging again.

User currently offlineRj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1857 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (11 years 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2694 times:

"Mig 28's and No One's been this close before!
-Goose from "Top Gun"


User currently offlineTrnsWrld From United States of America, joined May 1999, 944 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2538 times:

Must have been a rush for those passengers to feel that negative G when the pilot pushed the yoke forward fast Smile/happy/getting dizzy Unfortunately theres those people that dont wear seatbelts and the ones that just happen to be standing at that point. Hope there ok!


User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2478 times:

It's been my experience that military pilots don't alter course for anything or anybody. I have found myself several times head to head with Sea Hawk helicopters down here...they seem to enjoy playing aerial "chicken"...I take evasive action according to the books and each time, they've just continued on their path...it's like they don't even see me, but I don't know how that is...

Must have been a rush for those passengers to feel that negative G when the pilot pushed the yoke forward fast Unfortunately theres those people that dont wear seatbelts and the ones that just happen to be standing at that point.

Yeah, I almost hear a lawsuit from that passenger sitting down without his seatbelt fastened...but I imagine it would be thrown out, since the airline always makes a point of pointing that out...



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2219 times:

I hate to bring this up, but tahts scary!! As I just flew that route OKC-STL on American Airlines two weeks before that happened!!! I visited Tinker Air Force base and my cousin who works there said they have to eb careful as of its close location to OKC airport!!! Thats a little nerve wracking!!

Alex.



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineGnomon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2172 times:

JBirdAV8r --

Me and thee, brother. Several times, I've been much closer to military aircraft than I would have preferred. Some of those guys like to try to prove that they're hot shots. Becomes a real pain in the ass for Cessna drivers like myself.


User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

I think it was more the tower's fault.

They cleared the Eagles to do a midfield break as always and had cleared the 757 to land. I don't care what kind of aircraft you're in, you aren't going to see behind you when you're in a 45 degree turn. The 757 should have seen the tactical traffic miles out. I was at listening to my scanner when it happened. There is tons of military traffic at STL because of Boeing's presence and the 131st Fighter Wing of the Missouri Air National Guard being based here. Most of those F-15 drivers in the guard are airline pilots as well, I've seen them deviate a couple times here.

Get this, in the same week a 182 ground looped here and there was a cabin fire on an MD-80 at a gate. Fire and Rescue was busier than usual!!



DMI
User currently offlineThaigold From Australia, joined Sep 2003, 315 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2036 times:

How steep would an "immediate decent" be - must be pretty steep for FA's to hit their heads against the ceiling.

Also how much do they decent? And how much time warning does the system give?? I would imagine that the pilots don't get that much time to think about it but would have to do it by reflex....



Dunbar Rovers forever
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2005 times:

if you noticed....pilotpip

It was near TUL in OKLAHOMA!!! no where near STL, and the aircraft was an MD-80 NOT a 757 and it was getting near cruising altitude the plane was not near landing.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1875 times:

My mistake. I heard them calling the tower about ambulances standing by. They explained it in short. Only a couple minutes before they landed some F-15s were in the pattern. I had thought it happened there. Regardless, the firefighters were busy that day. Guess I should read the thread first  Smile


DMI
User currently offlineJMChladek From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1773 times:

Its way too early in the investigation to be pointing fingers on who was at fault and F-15s on ferry flights (as it sounded like this was) usually aren't hot dogging, but following the flight path they've been assigned to. The controller could be at fault, yes. But if it was the fault of the military pilots, then it would be probably a deal where the flight lead would have drifted to an altitude he wasn't supposed to and the guys following would be concentrating more on following the leader and keeping formation rather then their own altitude.

So I would encourage that talk about "hot dog" pilots gets stowed until the investigation is concluded. At least the TCAS did its job and all we have are injuries rather then potential deaths.


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