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Holy Cow! NW Got Rid Of A DC-9-30!  
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6432 posts, RR: 17
Posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4408 times:

Was there something about this particular DC-9 they didn't like?

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Photo © Bruce Leibowitz




Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4360 times:

NW has been retiring a small number of D93's over the past couple of years. No doubt early model ones due for major checks.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6432 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4326 times:

NW has been retiring a small number of D93's over the past couple of years.

So how about a SMALL 717 order?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4240 times:

So how about a SMALL 717 order?

Yikes! Don't go there!

 Big grin




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineMD11LuxuryLinr From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1385 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4160 times:

It was discussed before that Northwest was still buying DC9s up to a couple years ago and retiring problematic ones. The one in that pic was probably one of the headache ones..


Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4094 times:

Uh... Why would they BUY more DC9s? I think they should order at least 75 717s. (Perhaps launch the -300)

User currently offline4everRC From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 325 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3970 times:

Too late, somebody went there...

NW will not be in the market for the 717. They have make a large investment in the A319/320, and are more and more becoming the workhorse of their fleet.

Fleet commonality cuts costs, and NW needs to do that to stay competitive.



Nobody served our republic like Republic!
User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3939 times:

As the NW pilots say, after the last Airbus A319/A320 is sent to the desert, they'll retun home on a DC-9! By the time NW decides what to replace the DC-9 with, the B717 likely won't be in production  Big grin.

User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3841 times:

Here goes the daily DC-9 replacement thread.

**NW will not be in the market for the 717. They have make a large investment in the A319/320, and are more and more becoming the workhorse of their fleet.**

Are you an insider for Northwest? Do you know for sure? Northwest could really fool us one day and order the 737NG although highly doubtful.

What will Northwest use on the DTW-FNT or DTW-GRR routes that are pretty dense and use DC-9-50s and up until the retirement, 727-200s? That would be a waste of range for an A319 to fly 50 miles to Flint or 75 to Lansing with an aircraft that is meant to fly 2000+. Those are busy routes and I don't think Northwest will go all CRJ on those routes.


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8267 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3788 times:

And DC-9s were designed to fly 60 mile segments?

An A319 is perfectly suited for, say, FNT-DTW-MCO for example. It's no worse off than a DC-9.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3753 times:

Yes I agree totally.

An A319 is just more capible. I don't need to explain it....everybody knows
a 737-700 or an A319 costs less per head than a DC-9 .....just because it can fly further doesn't mean its no good. And if anybody can't comprehend this....what about the Delta Shuttle or the USAirways Shuttle?


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 11, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3721 times:

The sensible thing for NWA would be buying more A 318s and A 319s to replace their entire DC 9 fleet rather than buying B 717s as that would entail huge costs of training engineers, pilots and cabin crew for a new aircraft and this will not be the case if they order the A 318 or more A 319s!

User currently offlineFlyABR From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 659 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3523 times:

hummmm....front what i've read...it would be easy to train dc9 pilots to fly the 717. i don't think that's really an issue. that's what MD had in mind all along while developing the 717.

as for what type aircraft NW will get to replace the diesel 9s...God only knows! would seem that the A318 is a perfect fit for their fleet. then again if i understand things correctly...it (A318) has quite a bit higher seat mile costs than the 717. it's possible NW could go with the 717. hell they decided to keep going with 757s instead of A321s...(i do realize the 757 and A321 aren't exactly in the same class, but they are close)

what i do kinda wonder about is if NW would bite off sooner on the 717 if it had Pratt power instead of RR...?


User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3657 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3352 times:
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NW still flies the DC-9 because it makes economic sense, especially on short routes. They have said that it is still cheaper for them to continue flying the DC-9 because the acquistion costs override any operational savings with new aircraft when compared to the DC-9 missions. NW is currently replacing only the DC-9-50's with A319's because they have identical seating capacity, but have not said what will replace the DC-9-30.

717 ops are very similar to DC-9/MD-80 ops. In fact, the 717 has the same type rating as the DC-9. A pilot told me that the type rating he has for the 717 still is DC-9. The pilots only need a short differences course to move to the 717. Training for flight attendants can be covered in their reccurrent training and would also only need to be a differences course. The group needing the most training would be the mechanics and engineers to learn the 717 systems.


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6432 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3206 times:

So how about a SMALL 717 order?

I really wish I had not said this, because now this thread has srayed away from the INTENDED topic.  Sad



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3153 times:

"Fleet commonality cuts costs, and NW needs to do that to stay competitive."


Fleet commonality does cut costs, but the price for that may be a higher initial acquisition cost. I still find it very interesting that JetBlue went with Embraer for a 100 seater instead of the A-318. I predict when DL announces a 100 seater (announcement in Dec last I heard) it will not be a 737. So I think lower intitial costs will rule the day again.


User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3062 times:

When I used to live up in Detroit, I had talked to a couple of NW employees at DTW and they said that the A318 would have problems with the engines hitting the jetbridges the way the jet bridges are designed at DTW or something, plus the A318 engine is quite close to the front door as compared to an A319 or A320.

User currently offline4everRC From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 325 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (10 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2890 times:

HlywdCatft...

I'm not a NW insider, but I have family who is. I guess I should not have stated that as fact, just an educated guess on what I've seen and heard. My travels have seen routes that used to have 727s and DC9s are now A319/20, and I have no reason to think that this will not continue on routes that Airlink can't handle.



Nobody served our republic like Republic!
User currently offlineJafa From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 782 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (10 years 12 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2674 times:

NWA won't get the A318 just because they have commonality with the 319/320. The company has already said that the A318 is too heavy to replace the DC9.
The company has over 160 DC9's, thats enough aircraft to justify a new fleet type, such as Embraer or B717.
Thats the reason NWA got rid off the relatively young MD80's. We only had 8 of them. It was too expensive to maintain a seperate "fleet" of 8 aircraft.



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