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CO Transcon From JFK?  
User currently offlineEzra From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 474 posts, RR: 2
Posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2478 times:

Just a thought, but would CO stand to gain anything from opening transcons from JFK to LAX/SFO? Those routes are almost purely O/D, there are a ton of CO FF's in the area, and JFK and EWR are entirely different animals so I wouldn't think CO would be poaching from its EWR flights to run these services from JFK. Perhaps on BF equipped 752s?

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGlobaldude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2443 times:

EWR is an O/D market as well in that market. CAL will never try that with EWR being its NYC hub. CAL basically runs only hub and spoke (with a few exceptions).

User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2076 posts, RR: 36
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2444 times:

Well, with their most profitable hub across the way in Newark, I don't think they'd care to cannibalize the most profitable hub's most profitable flights. Laugh out loud Look for them to continue to concentrate on EWR for the NYC area, as they have nothing to gain from JFK. Plus with the new entrant HP on that route it makes it even a little less desirable. Big thumbs up

User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2422 times:
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EWR is the busiest airport in NYC area with better options for passengers. It's a nicer airport than the other ones


Made from jets!
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2414 times:

EWR is the busiest airport in NYC area with better options for passengers.

Not anymore it isnt... JFK is back in the #1 spot


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2403 times:

CO transcon from JFK? If/when an ERJ variant with non-stop transcon range becomes available...  Big grin

User currently offlineEzra From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 474 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2302 times:

Originally posted by LambertMan:
Well, with their most profitable hub across the way in Newark, I don't think they'd care to cannibalize the most profitable hub's most profitable flights.

My point was that there is enough O/D traffic in the market, and that JFK and EWR are different enough in their cachement areas, that such services could make sense. (Not to mention the enormous numbers of CO frequent flyers in the greater NYC area). For instance, AA and UA run transcons from both EWR and JFK.


User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2268 times:

No JFK but CO is starting EWR-TUS nonstop in December..will be a test for 1 month and hopefully they will keep it. We had it a couple of years ago but was on Saturday only....not very heavy loads..this one will be 7 days a week.

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2254 times:
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Ezra

If pax are already coming to EWR to fly you then why enter into a fare war by taking on AA and UA at JFK? Also just because AA and UA fly from JFK does not mean CO needs to as well. You also have JetBlue flying from JFK, so the market is pretty full as it is, let CO stay in EWR and operate from there.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2232 times:
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where did you hear EWR-TUS flyboyaz?


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2224 times:

From our CO manager...they haven't released it yet, it will be available in SHARES tomorrow I guess...they were asking her what times would be best.

[Edited 2003-09-27 03:10:44]

User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2184 times:
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do you work for us in TUS? I do remember us having saturday only service, just like ABQ did as well. Is this going to be seasonal service only? I'll have to check SHARES tomorrow.


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2174 times:

Yeah i work in TUS....its not supposed to be seasonal after the test period. She said it would show up tomorrow in SHARES...I will check too! TUS just hit 1 million people so she thinks that's why were are expanding. Last year we had 2 IAH flights a day...now we will have 5 plus 1 EWR. We've gotten alot of the ERJs but they go out full almost all the time...we also have gotten the 738 and 739 on a regular basis and even they went out full.

We are also HP in TUS and we have Freedom/Mesa flights now...they just set up a mx base in TUS and we hear they are going to put quite a few point to points to California and there abouts. We will have more RONS and they have to go somewhere!

Needless to say, TUS is going to get a lot busier!


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2155 times:

It is possible that CO will eventually codeshare on DL's transcons from JFK and DL on CO from EWR eventually although CO obviously has a much bigger presence at EWR.

User currently offlineCALMSP From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3969 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2154 times:
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so do we have any employees in TUS, you said "we are also HP in TUS" do you work for CO or HP doing contract work for us?


okay, I'm waiting for the rich to spread the wealth around to me. Please mail your checks to my house.
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 15, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2146 times:
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WorldTraveler

I think with the code share they add flights all the time and have not fully added all the flights yet. I thought I read that the only flights that they could not code share one were the flights that operated from one airline hub to another airline hub? I.E. being a DL flight from EWR to CVG, CO could not code share on that flight per say, tho a DL flight from EWR to CVG and then to MEM would be OK, I could be wrong or explaining it wrong.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2138 times:

We are all HP and we have some of the best stats systemwide I might add! We work really hard for CO.

We just have 1 CO employee...she's been in TUS since 1978! She's really great, knows everything.

It's a lot of fun and a nice change for us sometimes...though there have been more delays with the CO mainline jets....mx not like it used to be...we used to see a mx delay maybe once every 6 months or so...now it happens about every month..who knows! It's nothing like Mesa though...we want our HP jets back in the worst way!  Sad


User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2038 times:

The problem is that yields are being trashed on domestic routes out of JFK, while it is true that JFK just (this year) regained the title of busiest NY airport (thanks to Jetblue who's traffic grew a whopping 40% last year) the problem is all the growth at JFK is low yield Jetblue, Song and American's forays into Jetblue markets such as Long Beach.

Yields suck from JFK and are getting worse, that's why no major has ever had a "true" hub at JFK. It's gotten worse with Jetblue, DL is scaling back their trans-cons.

DL now has only one flight from JFK-SFO, a 757.
DL still has 3 daily flights from JFK-LAX but two of those are now 757s, eventually it's quite possible Song will take over DL's Trans-Cons since most are already 757s.

Things at JFK are getting worse for the Majors, AA has eliminated all Eagle flights except BOS, DCA and YUL from JFK. They are also reducing the size of their new terminal (which the completion date for has now been pushed back to 2008) , instead of the originally planned 55 gates it will now have 39.

No Eagle gates.

Newark has the advantage of drawing NYC traffic but also being "somewhat" insulated from the Low Fare yield trashing by Jetblue at JFK and WN at Islip.

Newark has a much stronger base of business travelers, that's why there are so many UAL and AA flights from EWR to Denver, Chicago, DFW etc and no UAL flights from JFK to Denver or Chicago. And also why AA only has 2 flights from JFK to DFW and none to Chicago.

EWR and LGA get the business travelers, JFK gets low yield folks.

DL originally flew from EWR-LAX up untill '92, even after DL took over Pan Am's JFK hub and Trans-Atlantic routes from JFK DL was still flying twice Daily from EWR-LAX with 767-200s.

Even back in the '80s when Eastern had a large JFK presence they flew trans-Cons out of EWR with 757s.

AA and UAL's 767-200 flights from JFK-LAX and SFO are unique in that they have a long history and strong connection to Hollywood folks who "glamorized" the routes for AA and UAL.

However don't be suprised if this changes, with the approaching retirement of the 767-200 fleet for AA and UAL there might be changes in the wind.




Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCdfmxtech From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1341 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1998 times:

though there have been more delays with the CO mainline jets....mx not like it used to be

Interesting comment!


User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1991 times:

It's just something we have noticed more...but in this poor economy, I guess cuts have to be made. I do remember when a plane broke....they could not easily find a part for it....it was a common part but they had none on hand. We guessed that maybe they were limiting their number of spare parts to save money. They are still very reliable though!

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1976 times:

Newark has a much stronger base of business travelers, that's why there are so many UAL and AA flights from EWR to Denver, Chicago, DFW etc and no UAL flights from JFK to Denver or Chicago. And also why AA only has 2 flights from JFK to DFW and none to Chicago

Not exactly that simple either.

AA/UA have quite clearly chosen LGA as their gateway to Queens/Manhattan... for them to fly ORD-JFK would be quite redundant as the sole purpose for many such travelers would be to connect to int'l flights, which can already be done for either carrier at ORD.


User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1955 times:

Did DL ever operate from EWR-DFW? And why did they discontinue the LAX flights in 92'? DL has always had a medium presence at EWR, but these routes are interesting. Lets also not forget the EWR-FRA flights.

CO has the strength in EWR. I'm not sure why they would get caught up in the what I would like to call "Transcontinental WARS" at Kennedy. They would have JBlue, AA, UA, and DL to compete with. Very unlikely to happen.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1948 times:

DOES CO SERVE JFK?????


bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineCdfmxtech From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1341 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1934 times:

Yes, a couple of flights to hubs not names EWR

User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1942 times:

DL flew from EWR-DFW up untill '99 or 2000.

And CO flies from IAH to JFK with 737-500s, CLE with ERJ-145s.

Back in '87-'88 right before the EWR got going CO operated JFK-Honolulu-Sydney with a DC-10 3-4 times weekly, the flights operated out of the old Eastern Terminal.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
25 PROSA : CO has the strength in EWR. I'm not sure why they would get caught up in the what I would like to call "Transcontinental WARS" at Kennedy. They would
26 Delta777Jet : Delta never operated from EWR to Frankfurt ! Never!!!!!
27 ContinentalEWR : Oh yes they did! Delta briefly flew EWR-FRA in the early 1990's, just after the Pan Am North Atlantic purchase. The route was operated with a 767-300
28 STT757 : DL did indeed fly EWR-FRA, as mentioned with a 767-300. I think the flight might have lasted almost two years, almost.
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