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Salt Lake Becomes More RJ  
User currently offlineDeltaffindfw From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1440 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3873 times:


I guess DFW is the model of what's to come...


Salt Lake City customers now will have two daily flights to Detroit, a new destination from Delta's third largest hub. Customers also will have eight additional daily flights to existing destinations, for a total of 301 daily departures with nonstop service to 66 destinations, compared to 293 departures today. Delta Connection will increase the number of flights from 178 today to 206 by February 2004, while Delta will reduce flights from 115 to 95. The additional Delta Connection flights will be flown by SkyWest and Comair and will feature Bombardier CRJ regional jets.

Delta's new schedule also offers more connecting opportunities for customers during peak hours, and makes the hub more productive, by reducing the number of connecting banks from nine to eight.




55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3836 times:

First NW, now DL..... I guess they're trying to reserve mainline jets for longer flights...


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3905 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3818 times:

Uh... DL was the leader in RJs, followed by Continental. NW is so far behind the rest of the majors when it comes to RJs. If you want mainline - FLY NW!!


AZJ


User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2073 posts, RR: 36
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3809 times:

Could someone tell me how many daily mainline/RJ departures that DFW and SLC had at their heights?


User currently offlineGeg2rap From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3781 times:

Another mainline pulling out of BIL GEG too bad I will miss the IFE on delta! UA is now the only one that has it out of GEG

User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6606 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3762 times:

Doesn't WN fly to GEG....that would be mainline too.

It's disappointing to see DL reduce SLC further, but I guess its not a big surprise.


User currently offlineDeltaffindfw From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3740 times:


When I moved to DFW in Jan. 2001, all of the main Terminal E and half of the Satellite was mainline. Now, the entire satellite and five gates of the main terminal is RJ. Last I counted 190+ of the 250 flights a day from DFW are RJ.

Of course, prior to CVG's expansion in 94, DFW was DL's 2nd largest hub.


User currently offlineTLHFLA From United States of America, joined May 2003, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3703 times:

Any word as to which cities will lose mainline service with the SLC cutbacks? When TPA was my home airport, I always wondered if Delta would ever offer a nonstop SLC flight. The closest we ever got was a short-lived TPA-MSY-SLC flight on a 727. I guess with the cutbacks, the possibility of a TPA-SLC nonstop is less likely  Sad.



Bill in ATL
User currently offlineDeltaffindfw From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3683 times:


Customers traveling between Salt Lake City and the following 17 cities will enjoy more frequency of flights: Tucson, Ariz.; Colorado Springs, Colo.; Oakland, Orange County and Ontario, Calif.; Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minn.; Billings, Bozeman, Great Falls, Helena, Kalispell and Missoula, Mont.; Oklahoma City and Tulsa, Okla.; Omaha, Neb.; Rapid City, S.D.; and Washington, D.C. (Dulles).

With the new schedule, all flights at Billings, Great Falls, Helena, Kalispell, Missoula, Pasco and Spokane will be Delta Connection flights, operated by Delta Connection.



User currently offlineMeister808 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 973 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3646 times:

Yeah, I guess this is how it is going to go. There are a frightening amount of RJs at CVG, with Comair's hub and also the ACA traffic, both working for DL. It's crazy how many small jets are in there now compared to 5 years ago.

-Meister



Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
User currently offlineBoingGoingGone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3572 times:

No Doubt.... SLC.. The next CVG. Too many small markets out of there that DL wants to hold on to. I always wondered why DL wasted money flying a 737 to Helena, MT. They only have 213 pax per day. At best there getting a 50% load with the current schedule between Delta and Horizon.

User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2637 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3559 times:

I bet they held some of those routes due to Pilot union agreements going back to the Western Air days. Well knowing that some may not be worthy of a 737.

The press release on the DL website states that its (unknown if it will be a DLConnection or mainline flight) connection to Detroit is a first. Not true, they had a DTW-SLC on a 733 as recently as 1999 (Back when they had the Crown Room @ DTW).




B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3542 times:

We get some DL CRJs here in Denver as well. . .from SLC.

With Frontier Horizon, errr, Frontier and the Horizon partnership, there should be a great increase of RJs here in DEN as well. Not to mention UA Express beefing up there RJs as well.

I think it's a sign of things to come.



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4480 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3518 times:

This is not good at all. I was hoping DL would increase it's mainline flights at SLC, not reduce them.  Sad

I love SLC, as all of you know. It's my favourite airport bar none. There's too many RJ's there as it is now, I've got nothing against them, but I'd really like to see more mainline jets.

SLC's population continues to grow. I wonder why there is a need at all to reduce the flights? If anything the demand should be growing.  Sad


The only good thing that could possible come out of this, is that it will force SLC to revise it's 20 year master plan. Their master plan calls for a demolition of the existing terminal, and construction of one that's many, many times bigger, and almost identical to the infrastructure of ATL. I'm serious, if you check it out, the new terminal design, slated to be open within the next 20 years, looks frighteningly similar to Hartsfield Int'l, with parallel concourses and more than 4 times the amount of gate spaces.

If DL is reducing flights, this design may not happen, thankfully. The current SLC terminal is beautiful. It'd kill me to see it demolished since I grew up watching planes from this terminal. I've always been against the SLC master plan.


User currently offlineBoingGoingGone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3501 times:

The problem is the population base in SLC. Without DL, they would only be a Medium Hub airport, and it appears DL will be making SLC a rolling/de-peaked hub to increase the flow of connecting passengers.

User currently offlineOrd From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3483 times:

In answer to someone's question...

Delta mainline at its height in DFW had 256 nonstops (1991 I believe), while SLC had right around 165 (I don't know the exact number but that's real close).


User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4480 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3466 times:

If so then, this means alot of mainline gates will be opened up at SLC....who's going to move into them? The RJ's wont be using these gates unless they are modified, right now they're designed for MD-90s and 737s, on up to L-1011s (which we don't see anymore).

Who will occupy these free gates? The market has to exist, SLC area has more than 4 million area residents, metro has 3 million, there's a high demand for air travel. Heck I was hoping that if I stayed n SLC I could eventually get a job at WN or DL some years down the road...it just doesn't seem to me that DL can vacate some gates without someone else coming in. And flights to major cities like DFW are high in demand or so it seems, so why go to RJ's? This is good for Skywest, not good for me.


User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3456 times:

Not true, they had a DTW-SLC on a 733 as recently as 1999.

DTW-SLC operated (with B733) from 1999 until September 11, 2001.


User currently offlineMoPac From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3448 times:

GEG goes Connection.... Wow, that surprises me. The last 5 or so times I've flown DL SLC-GEG it's always been a 738 and always been packed.

(Before some of you start in... Yes, I know that a packed flight dosen't mean it's a profitable flight.)

MoPac


User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3450 times:

Below is a link to Western Airline's final timetable --

http://www.airchive.com/Timetables%20and%20Maps/Western%20Compressed/WAmap8703final.jpg


User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4480 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3444 times:

Any chance that SLC will issue incentives to keep DL around?

User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4480 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3427 times:

Thanks for that timetable....boy I wish there was that much around today.


What SLC needs is a new hometown airline. Western could do it, if DL is pulling out maybe someone else can give it a try. Western wasn an LCC though, and today, a startup would have to be in order to survive....so no Hawaii flights.  Sad  Sad


User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3423 times:

DL's just tweaking its SLC operation ...

User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3419 times:

DL has allready left the 5 gates it had on the B Concourse. Jet Blue took one of them, and UA is parking SkyWest CRJ's at the B gates. The 2 gates TWA had on the B kconcourse are still vacant.

User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2073 posts, RR: 36
Reply 24, posted (10 years 11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3402 times:

Aloha, I realize that you love SLC as I do STL. But your metro area is right around 1.3-4 million. Utah's population alone is only 2.3 million. But you guys do have the X factor being leisure travel to the ski resorts etc....
They put RJ's on those runs so they can have a higher number of frequency to DFW to please business pax while still filling the plane. Seems as though we are going thru sort of the same thing with cutbacks, albeit mine is to a MUCH greater extent. I doubt DL will vacate the gates, they just won't use them as much. If they do, I think you are pretty much out of luck. STL is probably just as lucrative of a market if not more ( 7 mill o/d at SLC, 10-11 at STL), and no carrier has shown interest in picking up alot of slack except for WN(still don't know what's going to happen). The point is is that you still have 100 mainline almost, and 200 RJ flights, it will still serve your area just fine. No carrier really needs to come in and add flights in your market. I'm not trying to be a pecimist, just a realist.
Good luck SLC! and STL for that matter  Big grin


25 Post contains images Aloha717200 : I had thought the last census showed a combined population of 3 million for SLC metro....SLC "metro" counts in the populations of Ogden, UT, and it's
26 BoingGoingGone : I wouldn't be a bit surprised if DL pulled out of every small and medium hub market in the US, leaving mainline service to the 29-35 largest US market
27 Aloha717200 : Why would DL scale it's service back that much? They're not in bankruptcy.
28 SunValley : Its been being discussed around the SLC station that SONG will be in SLC by April, running SLC-MCO & LAS & PHX & JFK
29 B4real : Good catch, IndustrialPete. I could not remember when the SLC-DTW flight was removed, I just know it was at latest 1999.
30 BoingGoingGone : That's just been their trend the last 8 years. It's not about scaling back in terms of seat availability, they have the sam or greater seating capacit
31 IndustrialPate : Why would DL scale it's service back that much? They're not in bankruptcy. They're matching capacity to demand / maximum yields / etc. I don't think i
32 Deltaffindfw : I really like the frequency aspect as long as the length of the flight is taken into account. Now, DL competes with AA at DFW when it comes to freque
33 IndustrialPate : It sounds as though DTW-SLC will be operated with mainline jets ...
34 BoingGoingGone : That would make sense. Large city, 2-3 flights per day possible with one 737-800.
35 WorldTraveler : For those who fear that this will continue, Delta is getting pretty close to their stated goal of having an RJ fleet of about 400 a/c. There may be so
36 Aloha717200 : A question, why would Delta be unhappy with SLC's performance. Every time I've been there most flights have left pretty well full, and people connect
37 BHMNONREV : The same reason as STL. Full flights, but low yields due to fewer O&D pax, which is where airlines make their big bucks...
38 Geg2rap : Yes WN does fly to GEG but no IFE. I think DL will send CRJ 700 up to GEG and say BIL wouldn't you think? They said Comair and Skywest would do the fl
39 Andersjt : Aloha717200 - A full load on a mainline jet may not be as profitable as on an RJ for Delta. Delta has always been good at "yield management." In setti
40 Dulleswatcher : Wonder if the SLC trend could begin to affect international flights: airlines choosing long, thin direct routes to cater to business travelers and to
41 Aloha717200 : What does O&D traffic mean?
42 SunValley : origin & destination
43 Post contains images Fanoftristars : This was reported on the news last night here in SLC. I guess some Delta officials were in town, and they were putting a spin on it that they were inc
44 Post contains images Aloha717200 : Fanoftristars, where do you work at in SLC? Just curious. I may have seen you a couple times and not known it.
45 Jrlander : Another issue that ought to be considered here is the Delta mainline fleet. By retiring the 727's, L-1011's, and MD-11's over the last few years, they
46 Bucky707 : "A full load on a mainline jet may not be as profitable as on an RJ for Delta. Delta has always been good at "yield management." In setting airfares,
47 Andersjt : Buck707 - to respond to your statement "One, the seats that get cut are not the cheap seats, so your yield will go up. But two, you are leaving behind
48 BoingGoingGone : Wonder if the SLC trend could begin to affect international flights: airlines choosing long, thin direct routes to cater to business travelers and to
49 Post contains images MSPXJGuy : Just a small little tidbit of info, as of Oct 26th, (my birthday) Mesaba Airlines will be sending to flights a day with ARJ service for Northwest. So
50 Aloha717200 : Expanding on what Bucky707 wrote, the flying public prefers larger jets over smaller ones. If given the choice between flying in a small, cramped CRJ,
51 B4real : DL did this with DFW earlier this year (or late last??), they have been doing this with CVG, could they do it with ATL? They could do it more with CVG
52 Bucky707 : "Supply is maintained by frequency, instead of one 737, they bring in 3 RJ's. Some RJ flights will have more demand than others (shorter connecting ti
53 Fanoftristars : I would agree with most of what is said here, but I don't think there will be many LCCs moving into Montana very soon. I think this is a smart move on
54 Aloha717200 : I would agree with most of what is said here, but I don't think there will be many LCCs moving into Montana very soon. Actually, I'm speaking of SLC.
55 FlyPNS1 : The cuts DL is making are quite small and most of the markets are too small for the LCC's. In fact, even WN which has a large presence at SLC, hasn't
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