FlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 15 Posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3436 times:
Recently I've reapplied with Frontier to get my old job back. However I may have to relocate to either DEN or SLC. So I'm asking you all...which do you think is the better airport to work at as an airline employee? I really wish F9 would serve DAY, as I would move there in a minute, just for the fact the USAF Museum is there. All replies appreciated. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
DIA77 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 703 posts, RR: 6 Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3393 times:
SLC is a fine city, but I would take DEN in a heartbeat. DEN is much much bigger and has a lot more to offer. Both cities have lots of natural beauty, but DEN is much more of a cosmopolitan city. Also, if you're working for F9, why not be at their HQ? I currently work in Ohio, but would move to Denver in an instant if the opportunity presented itself.
Aloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4425 posts, RR: 16 Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3380 times:
I'd pick SLC hands down. SLC is big but not too big, and pretty darn friendly too. Unlike LA you still see smiles from strangers in SLC.
It is a big city that doesn't have a "big city" feel to it. Crime rates are not very high compared to other major cities, in fact, the city of Ogden, which is less than half the size of SLC proper, and lies many miles north, has more crime per capita than SLC itself does. West Valley City has it's characters at night as well, but aside from that, I feel safe walking in downtown at night in SLC.
Lots and lots of things to do. If you're the outdoors/adventure type there's skiing, boating, fishing, and flying of course. If you're the fun loving type that doesn't turn to nature, there's Lagoon to the north, which is sort of like a mini-Six Flags.
Lots of shopping and sights to see. Park city is beautiful, and you can see the ski jumps where the olympics took place up there, and in winter even try them out for youself. Breathtaking natural beauty in the wasatch range.
Traffic, like in any major city, is bad, but the freeways leading west from SLC run right under short final for runways 34R, 34L, and 35, it's common to have a 763 or 757 pass just a few hundred feet above your car, and spotting opportunities at the airport are incredible. And at christmas time, SLC goes very extravagant with it's christmas lights, Temple Square turns almost magical in appearance and feel. And the whole city is kept very clean through constant beautification projects.
You also have the Zoo, with a wide variety of animals. Very fun. There are three major colleges offering aviation programs nearby, numberous community colleges, alot of students, lot's of job opportunities. Lots of growth in the telecommunications and computer sectors. A promising future.
SLC can't be beat. I'm thankful, very thankful, that SLC is more friendly than most other big cities I've been in. I feel very safe in SLC most of the time.
BCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3316 times:
I'm going to bring up the topic that everyone has on their mind, but don't want to say out loud, when they think of SLC. Think of the religion factor. I don't know your personal habits. But if you have an alternative lifestyle, drink or other items which may seem out of place to the religious majority in SLC, I'd recommend elsewhere. Take it from an outsider's perspective to Utah (I live here currently), I'd choose DEN.
I'm not being biased. The people here are first-rate, the crime and cost of living are low, and it's a pretty good place to be. But it can also be very inhospitable to those who aren't of the LDS faith. So do what you will, but just keep it in mind.
Aloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4425 posts, RR: 16 Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3302 times:
You have that everywhere you go, BCA. You also find it in many southern states.
I have encountered people who do ask you what your religion is. I've had that just about everywhere. And whether it's LDS people, Catholics, or anyone else, if they ask your religion, you know they're going to frown upon it if you aren't the same faith as them.
It's not just an SLC problem. Not trying to start a war or anything, but, I've heard just about everything bad about SLC you can imagine in terms of religion. In fact you'd be astonished at some of what I've heard a few easterners think SLC is really like. Some people still think Polygamists exist in SLC. The truth of the matter is, the horror stories are nothing more that rumours born of bias and prejudice. The only people that will discriminate against you because of religion aren't worth caring about anyway.
I'm not going to say that some religious discrimination doesn't exist. It does. But it does elsewhere as well. I've grown up with it and it's not nearly as bad as people think. But it does make you uncomfortable when someone who otherwise likes you asks that question: "So which ward do you belong to?"
It's hard to answer "I....don't attend church"
But most of the time, I havent had it held against me. I've got lots of LDS friends who accept that I don't belong to any organized faith. You encounter the occasional zealot who thinks anyone who isn't their faith is scum, they're not worth worrying about. They only end up hurting themselves in the end, after they alienate everyone else around them.
I've had that from the baptists too. So, it's not limited to SLC, it certainly isn't limited to the LDS faith, and mormons are nowhere near as bad as some people try to make them out to be. For the most part, they're incredibly nice people, and usually pretty clean. And that makes me comfortable as well, I'm not in with the drinking/drugs/sex crowd, I'm clean myself, I just dont go to church.
I hope this will dispell any fears about that. I do not feel prejudiced against in SLC. I've had my uncomfortable or hurtful moments, even lost a girlfriend cause I wasn't LDS, but people certainly aren't out to get you. And the ones who make you feel bad....forget them, they arent worth your time. Denver's no better. I should point out though that I dont live in SLC proper. I live near SLC, and I'm there many times a month, so it's like a second home to me.
FlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 15 Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3254 times:
Thanks for everyone's replies so far. It was refreshing not to see no one knock one town over another. To answers a few questions here, I currently live in IFP...Bullhead City, AZ...right across the river from Laughlin, NV. As to my faith, I'm not a Mormon but a Methodist. My lifestyle is pretty clean-cut...defintely no drugs, a social drinker & an occasional cigar. Dating is but a memory now. So you'll have to draw your own conculsion about me. I should really be specific as to which airport is less of an hassle for a worker there. Such as parking, security, eateries, etc. I don't know about the cost of living in either city, but I imagine Denver may be higher than Salt Lake. So that's my story. Please feel free to offer more opinions & advices. Thanks & regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
Aloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4425 posts, RR: 16 Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3224 times:
SLC is pretty easy. Like I said I find people in SLC to be pretty friendly, I've never had a run-in with security at SLC, and the Microtel Inn is a great place to spot next to the perimeter fence without any cops ever coming over to question you.
But about the airport itself, TSA's been very forgiving, I havent encountered anyone rude there. Like most airports you can't go airside without a ticket, that's normal.
Parking is easy, there's a huge parking lot that is 1/2 surrounded by the airport terminals. You can park anywhere and the entrance to the terminals is just a short walk away. There's three terminals, but they're not really separated, it's quick and easy to get from one end of the airport to the other. Also, once you're past security, you can go anywhere you like in the concourses, A gates to D gates. All the concourses are connected past the security point, so unlike LAX, you dont have to go back through security to get to another part of the airport.
Eateries: Lots. SLC has lots of dining options at the airport. Most of the food places in ther airport close at 10 o clock, but you can have a nice breakfast anywhere in SLC airport, and there's numerous cafes and coffee shops as well. I've had some english muffins and croissants from this one cafe in the B concourse one time, delicious. They've got the regular fast food like burger king as well. And a starbucks. (I think). Almost all of the eateries, cafes and coffee shops have windows that look out onto the ramp, you can do a bit of spotting while sitting down to eat if you like, at almost all points in the airport.
SLC has tons of windows, tons of angles, if the sun is in a bad spot go to another part of the terminal and it'll be perfect. Long corridors of windows that are great for spotting in and Concourse A is perfect in that takeoffs from runway 16L take off right towards you, and fly roughly overhead. Excellent for takeoff shots, though there isn't much in the way of food and drinks in concourse A (it's the smallest concourse). But the main area of the airport is a very short walk away, by the United gates, so it's no big deal.
SLC is comfortable too, it has this very nice feeling about it. Not in the least bit gloomy. And of course thw Wasatch mountains form a very tall backdrop to everything, it makes the whole surroundings very beautiful imo. Sunrises at SLC are amazing, because of those mountains, the valley stays cool and dark while the sky blazes with colours each morning, and then light finally creeps down the mountains. You should see some early morning shots of SWA tails at the B gates I've shot from concourse A. Incredible. And I've noticed that the skies are much more blue in the mornings at SLC than they are in California, which seems to have more muted sky colours. (Sounds odd, but it's true, the sky is bluer in Utah than in California.)
The weather is always 10 degrees warmer in winter than the cities to the north in Idaho... a bonus. In the summer, temperatures get hot, but not sweltering. Cloudy weather happens often, but not too often, and some impressive thunderstorms have shown up from time to time, I've flown through them twice on approach to SLC, very fun, view's amazing. Especially amazing on the ground since most storms tend to form south of town, and if the jets are approaching from that direction you can catch photos of airplanes with lighting in the background....if you're quick on the button. Takes some practice and the right conditions.
Doesn't get humid very often, the lake does make the air a bit moist sometimes, but in the cool morning air that moisture feel just magnificent. One of my favourite places to be is at SLC airport just before dawn. You have to feel the air to belikeve it, and the early flights taking off into an white/orange/turquiose sky, you fall in love with it.
The only drawback, really, is that the variety of airlines isn't as great as it could be. this is due to the dominance of Delta and Skywest at the airport. If you want to see other airlines, go to Concourse B where United and Southwest reside, or Concourse A, where Frontier, America West, Northwest, American, and Continental make themselves home. With DL scaling back flights, maybe one of these others will expand their SLC operations...I hope. you'll also see an Aeromexico MD-80 at D gates on occasion, or at least you used to, I didn't get to check this last flight. United and America West Express CRJ's as well.
On the eastern end of the airport there are the Utah Air National Guard KC-135s parked on the ramp, and the occasional fighter jet as well. Tons upon tons of FBO's on the eastern side of the airport also, lots of private aircraft. All private aircraft, military, and occasionally cargo flights use runway 17/35 for takeoff and landing. Most commercial traffic stick to the two large parallel runways. Fedex and UPS have a whole cargo ramp, and their jets can be seen very large and very clear from the freeways. I often see a Fedex DC-10 parked on the ramp. A lovely sight now that everyone else has gotten rid of their -10s.
SLC is incredibly spotter friendly, if you enjoy spotting.
Anything else you'd like to know?
Also, about city size: I guess a bigger city can have some advantages like having more to do, and more variety in traffic....but, as far as I'm concerned SLC is great, there's enough to do, and the benefit is that the town isn't so large as to let crime get out of control, and property rates skyrocket. Housing in SLC is reasonable, and if you dont want a house there's plenty of apartment buildings nestled in the foothills of the wasatch range with nice views of the whole valley. I'll take a lower crime rate over a higher population anyday.
Also, you can see jets approaching the airport from any and every angle in SLC. Even in the suburbs far to the south, you'll see jets flying in on approach to the airport. It's quite common to be driving in SLC and look to your left or right and there is two jets on parallel approach flying beside you (though about a mile away). you can even see the jets all the way up at the university hospitals, way up the hillside. You can quite easily spot from anywhere in SLC, I've found. And that, really, helps me to stay continually excited about aviation when I'm in SLC.
My local airport is nothing. I'm always relieved to be in SLC, it's a breath of fresh air.
Andersjt From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 390 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3154 times:
This comes from having lived for 5 years in SLC, if you like seeing the sun in the winter, go to Denver. The Salt Lake Valley gets these awful inversion layers that settle down, keep temperatures cold, the sun rarely breaks through, and it gets depressing. However, if you like to ski, SLC is the better choice, at least that gets you out of the valley in the winter.
I think for job action, with F9, Denver would be the better choice. I worked for the original Frontier back in the 80's. I lived in SLC, but was based in Denver. SLC operations didn't seem as exciting. I was grateful for the frequent number of flights between the two ciities.
Oh how I long for the day when the skies were truly Friendly!
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16315 posts, RR: 87 Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3132 times:
Cost of living in Denver is pretty high, right?
Naw... its not that high. Much lower than any East Coast city.
I'm from Colorado Springs, live in DC, but did take a year contract in Denver recently. Believe me, DEN is a far more cosmopolitan city. Fantastic dining, all the outdoors you could want, plenty of nightlife.
Oh, and the most amazing airport in the US (for now).
Fanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1589 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3127 times:
I'll have to agree with those that have said SLC. I've been to denver many times, and from an employee's standpoint, it's a helluva long drive to DEN. I just moved to downtown SLC, in the heart of it all at the condos at the Gateway mall. I live less than 10 minutes from the airport, yet I never hear the airplanes. There is so much to do around here, and the streets are clean and safe. We're way closer to the ski resorts and the mountains than denver (9 awesome ski resorts within 40 minutes, 4 of those are less than 20 minutes away) I have to ask Andersjt if he's ever been to the city of Denver before to see the smog there. It's way worse than SLC. I've been there before when you couldn't even see the mountains from very close.
Sushka From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 4784 posts, RR: 15 Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3075 times:
And now a different point of view about SLC
I have never met so many unfriendly people in my life as I have in 2 years in SLC and the surrounding areas. And I have been to a lot of places, Denver included.
People seem to not care about the other person.
This place is just not cool. Terrible drivers, low standard of living, junk piles all up and down I15, Not enough green, etc.
I am even LDS and I still dont like it here.
I actually noticed a huge change in attitude when I went to Rock Springs WY. "How can I help you?", smiles on faces, etc.
People in Idaho are even nicer.
Andersjt From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 390 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3067 times:
Sushka - having been born and raised in RKS, it is nice to hear a compliment about my hometown. Thank you, I wouldn't suggest that anyone move there though.
The LDS thing can be a barrier, especially if trying to raise a family in Utah. My brother and his wife, non-LDS, had a hard time fitting in, and their kids did have a hard time making friends in school. They are now enjoying their life in Denver.
FanofTriStars - yes I am familiar with the smog situation in Denver. I now live in Los Angeles, and would take the smog here, or the smog in Denver, over those never-ending winter inversion layers hanging on the Salt Lake Valley, where you don't see the sun for days, weeks, maybe a month at a time. My last winter in SLC, the inversion layer hung on for nearly seven weeks without letting up. The temperature in the Valley never got above 20 degrees. You had to go up to Park City to warm up and see the sun.
There are a lot of positives about SLC. It is clean, almost too clean, and it is easier to ski than if you live in Denver. However, when I go back there, I still can't help but feel closed in and uncomfortable.
Oh how I long for the day when the skies were truly Friendly!
ATA L1011 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1368 posts, RR: 7 Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3034 times:
I would chose Denver like Andersjt said I felt uncomfortable their and it wasnt diverse at all I like diversity( I was unfortunately based their when I worked for DL). It also had so many weird rules and laws it just turned me off and everyone that came to visit me hated it but likd the scenery, and Denver on the other hand I enjoy very much.
Aloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4425 posts, RR: 16 Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3017 times:
I've been around SLC my whole life, never once experienced anything as bad as Sushka mentioned. Ever. Sorry that you had such a bad experience though, you must have run into some real bad luck.
But I've never seen anything as terrible as that. I find Salt Lake people to be almost as nice as Idaho people, sometimes more, though their driving skills could use some work!
But based on everything I've seen over the course of my life around SLC, I find it to be a remarkable place to be. I love the cleanliness. I dont like "cosmopolitan" and big city attitudes. I like the amount of things to do in a big city, but I dont like how cold some big cities can be. Salt Lake, by comparison, is a big city with small town warmth in many places, at least that's how it feels to me, coming from a small town myself. I'm always comfortable.
About the inversions, they happen often, but again my experience has been that SLC is usually much warmer and more comfortable in winter, than Idaho to the north. Idaho is usually at least 10 degrees colder (Malad and up) than SLC. I wish there were more green in SLC....but it's a desert afterall, fortunately the city itself is very beautiful towntown and planted trees make up for some of that green.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3008 times:
While I've only visited both DEN and SLC (and have never lived in either place) I've found both places to have both friendly folks and some that are not so. You obviously can see that anywhere...
Without wanting to contributing to any "thread creep" off the original topic, I do have to briefly note the observations of some that mention various types of apparent non-acceptance by LDS folks. I certainly can't attest or vouch for every LDS person's actions out there, but I would like to point something out. We (I'm LDS too) have something we call the "Articles of Faith", #11 of which simply states "We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, letting them worship how, where, or what they may."
I'd submit that LDS folks both believe and practice this tolerance, but other non-LDS folks perhaps somehow confuse it with other matters. For example, one could assume an LDS person is not being "nice" by not permitting their kids associate with non-LDS kids who smoke, drink, cuss, do drugs, have teen sex, etc. etc. It's not because they take issue in someone else's choice of faiths, per se (including "none"), but they retain their right to protect their kids from what they perceive to be harmful to them. Even an agnostic might well feel this way as far as protecting their kids. Thus, being "nice" doesn't necessarily mean accepting what you personally disdain or your faith tells you to refrain/abstain from.
As far as alternative lifestyles, the LDS folks have definite ideas as to what is, and isn't permissible. The Episcopalian community is debating this issue right now as far as openly gay Bishops. Belief in either side of the issue doesn't necessarily have anything to do with real/perceived "niceness"--people just believe what they believe.
The religion aspect notwithstanding, I think you'll find either DEN or SLC an excellent choice...
(..As I said, 't'was not my intention to create a religious debate here. If you have something that you just have to share/refute, just hit the "contact" link in my profile and send it via email, and not turn this thread into anything further off-topic than it's already become).