767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1541 times:
I know that we aviation buffs can easily figure out if a flight is code-shared and who is actually operating it. However, for the masses who don't get into the minutia of airline operations, do you think code-sharing is sort of a bait-and-switch?
For example, say a pax chooses an Air France flight from ATL to Paris because they have heard good things about AF and they want to try an international carrier.
Then they show up at the airport and discover it's actually a Delta ship, Delta crew, etc. Isn't this false advertising of sorts?
This happened to me...I chose a KLM flight ATL-AMS instead of Delta (and gave up the chance to rack up some miles) because I have always wanted to see what KLM's service was like & never had the opportunity before. Come to find out, it was a KLM jet but a Martinair crew. They were fine, but the whole point was that I had wanted to experience KLM, and nowhere on the booking information did it say it was operated by Martinair. It kind of made me mad in a way. Of course, it didn't ruin the trip, but somehow I think the codeshare thing can be very misleading.
Ams From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1689 posts, RR: 12 Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1474 times:
I can understand your frustration, however I knew that KL operated their flights between AMS-ATL-AMS with MP Crew, and this information also poped up in most CRS systems.
The person who books you on a flights is required by international law to disclose this kind of information, if some staff fails to do so, then the airline may be liable for misleading or not providing correct information.
Many airlines are using codeshare flights to offer customers a wider choice, however the actual operating carrier or crew should be always disclosed.
Carduelis From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2001, 1585 posts, RR: 11 Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1385 times:
As mentioned above the selling carrier is obliged to advise the passenger as to who operates the service.
Quite frankly, whilst it looks good for the pax, 'extra choice' etc, there is absolutely no benefit to the pax at all. Codeshares only benefit the carriers, by reduction of staff and through common host handling at airports, etc!
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
Thadocta From Australia, joined Aug 2001, 396 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1261 times:
Codeshares DO assist the customer. I get QF status bonus miles on QF, AA and BA, on all other OneWorld carriers I only get base miles, and even then not in all Y classes. If it carries a QF flight number and I am booked under the QF code, I get the full perks of my status, something I don't get if booked under the code of the operating carrier.
Ha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3492 posts, RR: 6 Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1190 times:
767 Lover, I doubt your flight was not a codeshare flight. It was more likely a flight that used a wet-lease aircraft since the flight was on a KLM painted aircraft. A codeshare means that the flight has a flight number for all airlines selling seats on that flight and operated using crew and aircraft from the operating carrier. A wet-lease leases both aircraft and crew from the leasing company and the aircraft will be painted in the lessee's livery.
767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1163 times:
I have another question about codesharing: Can airlines "claim" their codeshare flights* in their total number of markets served? In other words, if an airline claims that they offer flights to "all 5 continents" but the ones to Africa are actually codeshared on another carrier, not actually flights they themselves operate, is this cool?
It seems like this could be cause for a lot of untrue claims (and multiple carriers claiming to be the largest).
*I'm speaking of the flights that they are not operating, not the ones they are operating and someone else is codesharing
B4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2595 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1153 times:
A dingbat travel agent (only some, not all) can mess that up.
For example, I was sold a NW ticket GRR-CLE-AUS. I knew it was COEx the whole way, travel agent said it was NW. I knew better.
Most airline websites disclose actual operation - even for their own majority-stake regional carriers. DL's website puts an asterisk next to the flight number - even for song. Even though it is not really a different airline and not really a different type of aircraft, it gets such distinction.
I don't forsee codesharing slowing down any, what will it look like in a few years? I have seen flights in ATL carrying three flight #s - A DL, AF, and Ailitalia number. In a few years, will that same flight add NW, CO, and AS to its manifest of flight #s. Maybe more flight #s than pax
Flyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1147 times:
It can be a major pain in the butt. Passengers get confused all the time. What I hate the most is the express flight codeshares. Passengers buying tickets for example on America West out of TUS, think they are flying HP. When something goes wrong (and it does VERY often), HP takes the blame for it when they have nothing to do with the operation. Mesa/Freedom walk away with money and no worries of customer retaliation. A big pet peave for me!
B4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2595 posts, RR: 6 Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1143 times:
Pax do get confused. Imagine someone's grandmother trying to fly the first time on a codeshare ticket - in an airport like DFW - where NW and CO are in different terminals - can't check in @ the NW counter in Terminal E for the NW ticket on the CO aircraft - have to traverse to Terminal B (I think).
Bobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 7 Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1126 times:
Normally I don't give a damn about codesharing, and don't really mind what logo is on the plane, as long as I get to my destination quickly and comfortably...
However, I've recently been trying to boycott BA (just a personal gripe). Was very disappointed when I checked in for a flight - on a route that I now have to use often - to find that it was a codeshare with BA, mostly on BA metal.
Ha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3492 posts, RR: 6 Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1085 times:
Airlines do claim codeshare destinations as part of their markets served. However, they have to be clearly marked as codeshare destinations. Airlines got busted for not indicating codeshares flights and the operator because of complaints from pax. That's why they have to disclose this information.
FlyboyOz From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 1893 posts, RR: 28 Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1029 times:
More than ten years ago, my friend's grandma went from SYD to London via Hong Kong. He told me that she flew by Qantas to London but I told him that Qantas didnt operate from HKG to London..it might be British Airways. He said no...he saw her plane ticket it said QF from SYD to LHR and also QF from HKG to LHR. She and he didnt know that QF has a codeshare.
Ahhh I remember when I was in New York, my mum wanted to call Canadian Airlines to confirm our plane tickets. My mum and her friends looked up at the New York Yellow Page. We could not find Canadian office and phone numbers in US. She said how come Canadian did manage to fly from JFK to YVR as she saw the airline code "CP" in our plane ticket. They were confused as they didnt know about codeshare. I told her that we had to fly by American Airlines. Then she called American Airlines. The lady in the AA customer serivce told us that they have our names for our flight to YVR. Ahh it was working!
Ssides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 23 Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 941 times:
I remember seeing an interview with Bob Crandall (former AA CEO) a couple of years ago, after he retired, and he said he thought governments should ban all code-sharing. I tend to agree. I don't think it rises to the level of false advertising, but I do think overall it does disappoint and disadvantage many consumers. I love the sharing of FF miles, that's great, but that can happen without code-sharing.
Nevertheless, I can say that I have benefited from the practice. A few years ago I checked CO's fares from DCA-ABI; they were about $350. I got the exact same itinerary simply by booking through NW's web site for $189. Continental flights the whole way, with NW codeshares, saved more than $150.
Flyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 924 times:
Airlines do disclose that information...but if anyone works in the airline field.... you know....you can stand there and beat them over the head with a club and say "You're flying on Continental Airlines!!!" and they would respond..."But my ticket says Northwest!" People just turn into morons when they hit the airport...must be the jet fumes. God help us!
Planeguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 315 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 919 times:
Codeshares used to give me so many headaches. When I worked res for NZ I'd get angry passengers calling me from the airport saying that we duped them. They'd see the NZ two-letter designator on their tickets and head from their inbound terminal to our counter at terminal two only to find out that they were supposed to board a UA flight (much to their dismay). Similarly, passengers picking up tickets in will call would often end up at the wrong ticket counter.
My biggest laughs would come from UA customer service agents who'd call from DIA or ORD and ask me if I'd allow them to book their passengers on "our" flights. My response would always be the same: "Be my guest, it's your plane!"