Aloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4423 posts, RR: 16 Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3060 times:
I hope this doesn't come across rude, but....
Can we please stop debating over the death of AA and UA? Neither of them are going to die. Both of them are going to recover, and UA is going to emerge from bankruptcy. Neither of them is going to shut down. It's senseless to keep discussing the demise of these two carriers when it isn't going to happen to either of them, at least not now.
UA has been showing improvement over the past months. So has AA. Recovery is painfully slow in coming for all airlines in the industry, but the fact remains that the situation IS improving, little by little. If UA was going to go bust, it would have done so months to a year ago, not now, where the outlook is looking a bit brighter than it did a while back.
UA is going to be fine, and so is AA. I'd rather we cheer them on in their revocery rather than contemplating gloom and doom for these carriers all the time. AA and UA employees reside on these forums, and I'm sure they appreciate reading comments about when their jobs are going to end when they come here, at the end of busting their butts all day at the check in desks, on the ramps, on the phones and in the air as they work to keep their company alive and efficient. How about we focus on the positive for once.
AirportGuy1971 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 355 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2990 times:
I would have thought both would have been fine with UA's slow but steady improvment. But UA's determination to start up starfish, rather than devote all thier resources and effort to make improvments to the main brand may be thier undoing. UA's folly!
Boeingflying31 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 165 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2887 times:
Is it true that AA can never "die"? I remember I heard this guy saying the U.S. government will always help AA since it is considered to be America's airline. Not sure if thats true but that would be a nice thought.
Flyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2837 times:
I think they are both lucky to be around and should be counting their blessings everyday!
Two airlines in similiar situations that weren't so lucky were Pan Am and Eastern. They didn't get any government loans or bail outs...they were left to fend for themselves and unfortunately, did not survive. Of course the circumstances now are alot different than in the first Gulf Crisis but none the less, produced similiar problems. Back then I could not imagine Pan Am or Eastern disappearing, but they did...as many today could not imagine United or American disappeaing either. If anything, I think Pan Am being the star of commercial aviation for decades, an industry leader, should be around today in it's original state (not based in NH flying to dinky airports).
I have absolutely no respect for our current federal government officials, but in their defense, the airlines owe them their lives. If it wasn't for their help, I would be out of a job now, as would thousands upon thousands of other airline employees.
Mikeycpvd From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 162 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2823 times:
What about "United States" Airlines based in Arlington, VA, who came pretty close to a farewell flight? Or "Pan American" Airways (which effectively included 2 continents). I'm not sure no oner airline is unsusceptible.
Some cats think i'm 6 feet, I'm so deep; I can get d-d-down like a pessimist - Common
Thrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2686 posts, RR: 10 Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2789 times:
UA definently. United is currently in bankruptcy. Though American Airlines is heavy in debt, it is has not yet declared bankruptcy. It is still maintaining its routes. United my guess will not be around ten years from now, at most. They have been under for over a year, and once a huge airline like that goes under, with many different types of aircraft and huge amounts of employees as well as international routes, it is very hard to rise again.
Ssides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 22 Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2742 times:
Don't be fooled -- the chance of one of these airlines going under is a distinct possibility. While some people say that the government will "never" let an airline of this size go under, the mood on Capitol Hill is that the government has already given the airlines enough. It would be sad to see a large airline and all of its employees go down, but that may be just what the industry needs.
Of course, UA is in a more precarious position than AA. It will have to emerge from bankruptcy with drastically lower labor costs, less overhead, and better debt service payments than it has today. If it can do this, it will probably be around. Maybe on a reduced basis, but still existant.
For AA, it has already moved to lower its costs, but time will tell if its efforts will prove to work. It never paid its pilots as much as UA, and despite a history of poor labor relations, I think its workers realize that they will need to make sacrifices to save the company.
The bottom line is that the airline industry has seen a drastic -- and I believe permanent -- shift since the year 2000. Business travelers aren't going to be paying $1500 for 1000-mile trips anymore when a conference call, fax or FedEx can do the job. Without those travelers, the majors won't be able to make it with their bloated cost structure. They'll need to cut salaries, improve efficiency, and simplify their operations in order to live.
AA777MIA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 686 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2612 times:
You posted "For AA, it has already moved to lower its costs, but time will tell if its efforts will prove to work. It never paid its pilots as much as UA, and despite a history of poor labor relations, I think its workers realize that they will need to make sacrifices to save the company."
What do you think that workers at AA have done? We have taken HUGE pay cuts, to the point that I may even lose my condo... We have definitely taken out fare share, the rest is up to management, and the economy. I certainly hope NO one goes under, because it would not be good for the workers, in addition the economy. I cannot imagine if one of the "Big 3" were gone. It would be a NIGHTMARE trying to get anywhere...