ContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 12 Posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 7836 times:
I read on Yahoo! Airlines/Aviation News that British Airways paid $15-$20 million to purchase four takeoff slots from United Airlines, all of which are UA slots to New York. Does this mean that United is pulling out of the NYC area market to London? Right now, United has two flights a day in the market, both of which operate out of JFK (UA 956 and UA 904). The Newark-Heathrow flight (UA 906) has been suspended or will be suspended shortly, and the day light service from JFK (UA 976) has not operated since 09/11.
There is no question that United is an also-ran in the busy but competitive London-New York market, one of the most prestigious and lucrative in the world. But United must depend heavily on O&D on both sides of the pond to fill one 777 and one 767-300 flying the route daily since it has virtually no major operation at JFK (with NRT, SFO, and LAX being the only other flights, and a couple of Express flights to IAD).
ContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (11 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 7724 times:
The article specifically mentioned the slots as being NY slots, but you are right, in another Press Release about enhanced Club World service to NYC, BA said it is not adding more flights to NYC.
UA has dormant slots to Boston, Seattle, JFK, and Newark, so my guess is that these are the slots they are selling. United hasn't operated nonstop SEA-LHR flights since 1993, the Boston flight was axed last year, and JFK and EWR have been severly reduced by 50% from four daily to 2 daily.
David_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7642 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7482 times:
Slots at the UK airports are not tied to destinations; if it were, bmi would have 5 daily to LPL and 2 or 3 daily to both BHX + EMA. Instead bmi cut these services to provide slots for their European routes.
Therefore, knowing BA, I wouldn't be surprised if one or two more of BA's LGW services got transferred to LHR.
StevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7199 times:
Cash for assets that UA doesn't even use or can't make a profit on...makes perfect sense to me. Many companies who have assets that have only a minimal impact on profits in tough times (and actually have a drag because there maybe operating costs associated with them) will seek to sell them. In fact, my company is doing the same basic practice, and we have nothing to do with the airline business!
If it's true it's BOS and SEA and EWR, those routes will probably never be restarted by UA again, anyways It makes further sense for them to focus on flghts that can be profitable out of hubs/markets that are less competitive for them, such as IAD. Hasn't UA already moved some of their South American routes out of JFK to IAD as well?
Can't say I agree with AA717driver's conclusion. Employees already know those routes have been suspened anyway, so that wouldn't lower morale. If UA were to start selling active routes, now that's a different story entirely, but I don't see that happening in this case.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7115 times:
The comment above that states slots are not tied to destinations is correct......UA is simply selling 4 slots to BA if the news release is accurate - thus UA will lose 2 landings and 2 departures per day. UA has cut back in service at LHR in the past years and, for some time, Star Alliance partners have used a some of the UA slots on a temporary basis (babysitting as it is called) so that UA would not lose them. Now, with the EWR service cut, and JFK-LHR operating with only 2 flights per day (there were 3 and at one time 4 flights per day on that route) it is selling the slots that we associate with two New York flights (one to EWR, one to JFK).
While UA has not operated SEA-LHR for years, I believe that the slot for that flight (and some others) have been transferred for use on the Chicago-Heathrow flights.....remember, UA only gained the right to fly ORD-LHR under a special exception to Bermuda 2 (Pan Am did not fly that route and UA's authority into Heathrow was purchased from Pan Am) and UA started ORD-LHR with only one flight per day (a 763)....there are now several flights per day on the route.
A sidenote, with both UA and AA cutting their EWR-LHR services, BA has the Newark to Heathrow route to itself.......and CO, due to Bermuda 2, is stuck at Gatwick. Not really equitable in my opinion; its a shame that CO could not have grabbed the 4 subject LHR slots to open up EWR-LHR service! Situations like this will arrise unless and until Bermuda 2 can be reworked or thrown out - maybe the US and UK authorities will be able to resolve their bilateral by the year 3000?
DoorsToManual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7081 times:
I don't agree that this is outrageous...UA probably sold to the highest bidder...that's how an auction works, and both parties involved are private companies, not state ones therefore air service agreements between the UK and US govts are irrelevant. Besides, the UK has washed its hands clean of dealing directly with the US...that's what the EU is for.
$15-20 million is nothing to smirk at, I'm sure UA greatly appreciated the charity...
Back to BA.
With the retirement of Concorde from the fleet this month, one wonders whether the airline might trial all-premium class flights through a partnership with PrivatAir using BBJs/ACJs, as Lufthansa is doing now.
TLHFLA From United States of America, joined May 2003, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6959 times:
If the Heathrow slots could be used to fly to any city, I could see BA transferring LGW-ATL to LHR-ATL. They would have the edge on Delta as far as O&D is concerned for that route. I can remember hearing that Delta is very interested in trying to obtain LHR slots.
Thrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2691 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6945 times:
Anyone recognize the situation UA is in? I'll give you a clue (It involved LHR route-swaps between two U.S. airlines which are now one). United is in the same situation TWA was in during the Carl Icahn era, which many of you know about. I'm not going to give a huge lecture. All I can say is that United, like TWA and Pan Am before it, is an airline whose routes extend over the globe. And now, United is being forced to suspend many of these routes, such as flights to New Zealand and, like everyone mentioned, LHR-EWR, and possibly BOS-LHR. My guess is that United will continue to cut even more flights to gain breathing space, because that is what TWA and Pan Am had to do. I would expect to see United slash more international routes in the future, but if that is not going to happen, please tell me. If anyone responds, thanks.
Dispatch From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6878 times:
what makes you think DL or CO even WANT these slots. They both have their operations at LGW. Setting up at Heathrow for just two r/t's a day would cost them a lot.
Besides, CO has numerous code shares to LHR daily with VS. DL is (probably) anticipating more flights to AMS and CDG in the SkyTeam alliance.
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8413 posts, RR: 54
Reply 18, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6848 times:
Take it from me, Delta and Continental want Heathrow. They want it BAAAAD.
And it would make sense, both have big hubs in the NY area. Delta are the biggest airline across the pond (certainly the biggest US carrier, BA may carry more pax) and a lot of it is from JFK. Continental completely own Newark and have loads of European destinations. Heathrow is the missing jewel in the crown for both airlines.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
Speedport From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (11 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6309 times:
When TWA began selling routes it destroyed the morale.
The parallels are undeniable; although I am sure some dyed-in-the-wool cult members will try.
I'm sure many TWA employees said 'we will survive,' and for awhile they did, but only for awhile.
Airlines which have a future business plan hold on to their routes, even ones they are not using today. Airlines which are holding on by a thin thread toss the future out with the bathwater.
Remember, Pan Am went through the same downsizing and look at what happened to them. UAL has been dropping international destinations steadily, even before 9/11. Now their plan revolves around an LCO. Sound familiar?