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Cathay Pacific Considers Buying Older 2nd Hand A/C  
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13745 posts, RR: 19
Posted (11 years 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7745 times:

Cathay Pacific - Hong Kong SAR's de facto and largest airline - is understood to be interested in buying second hand planes.

"We've asked the market for information on the availability of used aircraft for purchase, so we can have a look for planning purposes," said some executive.

It is bad news for Boeing and Airbus as they fight it out for customers. "It makes it harder to sell new airplanes, so we've got to figure out how to sell new airplanes through packaging services or pricing," said Boeing spokesman Mark Hooper.

"Used commercial airplanes are currently selling for as low as one tenth the cost of new equipment due to a glut in supply, with some 2,000 aircraft sitting idle in holding grounds around the world, according to Mr Hooper."

More information at the Financial Times website



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4802 posts, RR: 44
Reply 1, posted (11 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 7592 times:

I read that theyre looking for used B 744s only and no other aircraft type used.

They maybe too looking for used B 777s as now theyve gotten the rights from the relevant HKG and CHIN authorities to fly on their own to China so they probably need the extra aircrafts for their Chinese flights + peak winter season demand which may see numerous extra flights being added to Bali-SYD-MEL-LHR-NRT-BNE-BOM-DEL-DXB-BKK etc etc.


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7418 times:

I believe that the only used aircraft they are looking for are 747-400s. One would think that British Airway's 747-400 fleet would be a good place to start. British Airways has tried to sell off some of its 747-400s for quite some time and the RR powerplants also match CX's needs. Interesting to see the 747 continueing to play a major part in CX's fleet when pundits continue to trumpet its removal.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineAndrewtang From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 461 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7266 times:

The intention to buy 2nd hand 744 is for Freighter conversion.

User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7241 times:

I don't care flying on a second hand aircraft, as long as it is comfortable (and I don't know why a second hand B744 of CX wouldn't be more comfortable than a B744 of SQ directly from Boeing).

CX has an extremely good service, hope to fly them some day soon!


User currently offlineAirbus_A340 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2000, 1560 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7163 times:

Cathay is interested in buying over a dozen second hand B747-400's to join the fleet.

Airbus_A340



People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6620 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7065 times:

Thanks SQ_air for bringing a smile to my face after reading the wording of your topic title. You never cease to amaze me.....or should I say, you have indeed ceased to amaze me?

The rumour is 14 or 15 ex-BA 744s, some of which would be freighters, some of which will replace four leased A340-300s due for return in 2006, and possibly even the A340-600s, as rumours are that those are going at the end of their leases. Will have to wait and see.


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7030 times:

What is the reason behind the rumor of CX returning their new A340-600s? I am extremely happy to see a potential increase in 747-400s operating for Cathay!!!


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6620 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6970 times:

The rumour goes that we are unhappy with the performance and the reliability, as well as the constant landing gear changes and weight problem. However, these are just rumours.

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6900 times:

This is an interesting development. I wonder if this will light a fire under Boeing to develop a 744 successor/serious upgrade in the next few years. It seems clear to me that the niche is theirs if they choose to pursue it.

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6869 times:

some of which will replace four leased A340-300s due for return in 2006, and possibly even the A340-600s

That'd be nice... would love to see CX get rid of those pieces o' junk!

Though, that'd be about the 3rd time or so that nonstop HKG-JFK flopped during/before proposal  Big grin


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6801 times:

Concordeboy, can you please back up with facts that an A340 is 'a piece of junk'? You must be a very smart technical engineer to know that an A340 is not reliable, certainly in comparision with the B747.

Are you born with an anti-Airbus sentiment?

There is not any evidence behind your statement, a lot of airlines seem to be happy with the A340 family, so I don't see any problem.

The A332 is another aircraft of the Airbus family that proved it's reliability already. Yet we see that QF wants to take them of certain flights, and you know why? Because QF can't take advance of the performance of the A332 on those (I believe) short sectors (that's what I made up after reading a thread about this on here some time ago, I have no knowledge at all about the technical specifities of aircrafts so I can only say what I read over there). Maybe a B772/3 or B744 fits better on the sectors where CX is currently using the A340? Who knows?

Every new aircraft has it's problems. You think that Boeing had not any problem with the new B741, B772, B731 etc?


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6799 times:

Concorde Boy,

thanks for another very informative statement...Don't wonder when nobody takes you serious any longer here since your postings only consist of standardized phrases without any piece of logical or proven content. Whenever the A340 issue comes up (no matter which kind of), you spill out your senseless negative comments on it. Permanently, continuously. One could almost think the A340NG is not a metal tube but a personalized subject which has hit you somewhere and you therefore hate it...have you also built some anti-posters or stickers like fanware to express your opinion to your neighborhood or in school?  Confused

Sorry for my irony, but to remain serious: why aren't you just able to bring up some facts concerning the A340NG? Not only me, but many people on this forum would like to hear arguments rather than thousand times the same childish remarks. I personally don't know the performance of the A340-500/600, but would be interested in getting more info. If you are the one to help me, you're welcome to do so. But I fear you are totally the wrong person able to provide facts...you seem to have way other talents as you have shown again and again...  Wink/being sarcastic


Btw, nice to hear Cathay is interested in more B744s. It's good BA won't send some of their aircraft to Arizona but to HKG instead. And it shows Cathay is growing again after the SARS crisis.


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4802 posts, RR: 44
Reply 13, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6687 times:

They want the B 744s for freighter conversions??? hmm...interesting but not surprising as cargo is a huge profitmaker for them especially in the SARS days and a few weeks after it ended too.

But if cargo is so important, then why didnt CX order many B 744 Combis? They would have the same 3 class seating capacity of an A 346 but carry twice as much cargo!!! BR-CI-KLM and OZ have a few B 744 Combis and love them.

I am surprised that major cargo airlines like BA-AF-LH-SQ-CX-JAL-ANA-KR did not order B 744 Combis...can someone tell me why?

Also I would advise AI to replace its 2 B 743 Combis with B 744 Combis!!!


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6654 times:

Thank you for jumpstarting my memory. It has indeed been reported that CX is looking for 2nd hand 747-400s. Their intentions are to convert a few of these airframes into freighters and use the rest of the airframes as replacements for the A340-300s leased from China Airlines and remarkably the brand new A340-600s. Weight problems have plagued the A340-600 which is why Airbus is introducing and IGW version of the airframe. Hopefully for Airbus this will help.

As for future 747 models, Cathay Pacific has been linked to the 747 "Advanced" project. We shall see.



"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6615 times:

Oddly enough, I have now heard reliability issues from friends at both Virgin and CX. Apparently the plane is not getting close to the figures promised for perfomance or dispatch reliability. While this is somewhat to be expected with a new plane, it is apparently bad enough that they are both thinking of getting short of them.

Jeremy


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6571 times:

Weight problems have plagued the A340-600 which is why Airbus is introducing and IGW version of the airframe.

Sorry, but what is an IGW version?

Regards
Frederic


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6550 times:

Increased Growth Weight. Basically improving the capabilities of the aircraft and allowing it to have a greater payload capability/range.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6517 times:

Thanks for the info!

Does this need a lot of modifications? Can it be done on the current active A346's?

Regards
Frederic


User currently offlineEx_SQer From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1436 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6496 times:

I am surprised that major cargo airlines like BA-AF-LH-SQ-CX-JAL-ANA-KR did not order B 744 Combis...can someone tell me why?

Combis can be a pain to handle on the ground. You need extra equipment to load/unload a combi, you sometimes have weight and balance issues (in extreme instances paxs are unable to deplane until cargo is off the aircraft), and it takes extra time on the ground, leading to delays for paxs, etc.


User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10765 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6368 times:

I would certainly be good news if one of my favoured airlines would be aquiring more of my favourite aircraft. All my flights with CX´s 744s have been a pleasure. And more than 10 of them is big news although I would be surprised if all would come from BA as this would seriously reduce the size of BA´s fleet.
I´m surprised that the A340-600 obviously has problems to meet its "paper figures". That wouldn´t be the first time for the A340 not to keep its intended goals. Is this just a rumour or can someone (except our "expert" ConcordeBoy) confirm this?


User currently offlineJacques60 From France, joined Jul 2003, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6280 times:

Sorry Behramjee, but AF did operate 744 combis , at least 5 of them still in the fleet namely F-GISA to SE. The trouble is that they fly in a full pax config...what a shame for a cargo guy like me !! The reason put forward was the difficulty to match Pax and Cargo needs : passenger division wanted to use combi for thin pax traffic and cargo mngmnt wanted them for heavy cargo segments ! This was already the case with the 742 combis (9 of them if my count is right) that AF used to have .
In terms of payload/revenue AF lost a lot of cargo potentiel when the B777 took over from 744M on a route like CDG/EZE . Full freighters cannot replace the combis in view of usually restricted traffic rights !
Rgds


User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6620 posts, RR: 55
Reply 22, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6092 times:

Just in case some of you were wondering, Cathay is very satisfied with the A340-300, but the aircraft in our fleet is suited to long-thinner established routes, and developing new routes. The only Airbus routes to Europe are AMS, and ROM (Which is only half the year). Eventually these will be 2x 744s and unless new routes are launched to Europe, the A340 won't be going much. JNB is currently A340 for 6 months and 744 for 6 months. Eventually, this too can be all 744. If we ever get LHR-JFK, this will also be 744. Cathay needs more 744s and the A340s are required less. This is the reason the A340-300s are going back off lease. There is nothing wrong with them. However this is just the plan, and if things pick up the A340s may stay. The plan is to bolster the routes we already have, and launching new routes (apart from China) is not the priority. If anything we need more 777s and A330s, as the long haul aircraft are featuring less and less on our regional network.

After all, a mere year and a bit ago, the plan was to return 744s, and now we are looking for more. In aviation, plans change quickly.


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6004 times:

It is interesting that as CX Flyboy said, the 747-400 fleet was going to be reduced last year! CX, how is life on the line with the 777? Any new news on that airframe? Also, what timeframe is CX looking to acquire the 747s in?


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5618 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (11 years 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5946 times:

I am completely floored that a plane just a few months old is seriously being considered for disposal...what's happening with the A340-600 sounds a lot like what happened with Singapore Airlines and it's A340-300s. I don't care how you look at it....but if this is true..this is not a good sign for the A346. I'd be sh*ttin' bricks if I was the lead sales guy at Toulouse!


BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
25 Post contains links Bkkair : This was posted a few days ago in the HK Standard, about converting used 744's to freighters... http://www.thestandard.com.hk/thestandard/news_detail_
26 AJ : "Increased Growth Weight" Close, but Increased Gross Weight.
27 Ap305 : The a340-600 in Virgin service has had a dispatch reliability averaging in excess of 98% in its first year(According to an Airbus story and normally m
28 AJ : Edited due idiocy! * * *[Edited 2003-10-19 08:51:03]
29 B-HXB : I understand the A340-300 can also take more cargo than the 744, which makes it an ideal aircraft to put on the HKG/AKL run.
30 CX773 : A340-600 can take more cargo than B747-400 but not A340-300.
31 Cx flyboy : CX747, Life is great on the 777. I don't think there is a single person who dislikes it. Pilots love it, cabin crew like it, engineers love it because
32 N79969 : If the 346 has frequent landing gear problems and performance shortfalls, that creates a difficult problem. I am no engineer but if the landing gear s
33 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : Sabena 690 & Udo, I have no admiration for A340s whatsoever, and have no qualms about expressing that.... but on a more serious note, you two cannot p
34 N754pr : CX747, Cathay have no A340's leased from CI. Some of the BA 744's would be used to replace the A343's that are due to be returned to the leaser.
35 B-HXB : A340-600 can take more cargo than B747-400 but not A340-300 From the Airbus website: After allowing for full passenger baggage in containers, the A330
36 N757KW : Does anyone know what the payload for the B747-400SF would be? There is a lot of wasted space on the upper deck and the additional 96 inch pallets rat
37 Gigneil : The A340-600 meets. It doesn't exceed, it meets. In my organization when we have layoffs they line the "meets" up on one side and the "exceeds" on the
38 Artsyman : VS has been extremely pleased with theirs *********** This is not true at all, my contacts in Virgin are stating the exact opposite. The aircraft is n
39 B2707SST : Unless an airline demands four engines for ETOPS exemption (TG), then the 777LRs are simply better aircraft. As the figures above show, the Boeings ca
40 Ap305 : Artysman, Virgin talking about 747s and 777s is most probably their way of trying to drive the price down on more 346s.There seems to be a genral impr
41 ConcordeBoy : Airlines like Emirates would not have ordered the a340-600 if the performance of the aircraft is as bad as people in this forum make it out to be Not
42 Artsyman : Artysman, Virgin talking about 747s and 777s is most probably their way of trying to drive the price down on more 346s *********** While I agree that
43 Leskova : I just hope that the 346 won't go the same path as the MD11 - a beautiful plane that simply didn't do what it was supposed to... People who know me kn
44 Artsyman : On the other hand - SAA doesn't seem to be unhappy about their A340-600s, or have I missed any statements in that direction? ******* I tend to ignore
45 Ap305 : Artysman,I can assure iam not a "spotty kid " nor if you care to read my posts am i arguing with what cxflyboy is saying.The a340-600 includes various
46 Artsyman : AP305, None of my comments were directed at you, and I apologize to you if you felt that they were. Jeremy
47 Post contains images Buckfifty : Hehe, Cx Flyboy definitely has a bias against Airbus, that I know quite well. In terms of the company getting ex-744's from BA (as is the prevalent ru
48 Post contains images Ap305 : Jeremy no probs dude! ,we all are in this forum because we are crazy one way or the other about aviation.Buckfifty this is a smokeskreen for what?An a
49 Cx flyboy : My bias, I would like to think has not been displayed here. I have made it quite clear that what I have written are rumours only. What I do know is th
50 Na : If CX wants 10 secondhand RR-powered 744s there is simply no other source around than BA. The third sizable 744 operator with RRs is Qantas, and they
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