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Tarom In Sky Team In 2004  
User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4877 times:

Accordingly to a ROMPRES (Romanian Press Agency) article dated Oct 23, 2003, Aurelia Fulger - Tarom's Marketing Manager - announced that Romanian airline is on a normal course of joining Sky Team Alliance in 2004. Starting Oct 26 Tarom will is launching a full codeshare agreement with Air France on Bucharest Otopeni to Paris CDG. This new full codeshare agreement is Tarom's third such agreement with Sky Team airline members beside Alitalia and Czech Airlines CSA.
Can anyone can confirm this information from other sources?

For more news about Romanian aviation check my Airliners.net profile-homepage or go directly at http://aviationromania.homestead.com/Overview.html




24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKl777jfk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4781 times:

THAT IS EXCELLENT NEWS!

VERY GOOD!



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User currently offlineDaV From Italy, joined Jun 2001, 669 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4778 times:

Skyteam is going to look a bit overcrowed in eastern Europe in the years to come... CSA, Tarom and eventually Aeroflot if they'll join as widely rumored in the last month.

DaV



Two monologues do not make a dialogue
User currently offlineOD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1924 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4760 times:

That's great news. SkyTeam is doing a good job by going to East Europe. I believe that there will be rapid market growth in that part of the world. East Europe and the CIS seem to be recovering fast from the "transitional period" glitch.

By the way, any news on that A318 order for Tarom?

Best regards.


User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4674 times:

This is excellent news for Tarom is join with SkyTeam Alliances is, AZ, AM, OK, DL, AF & KE. This is willing seventh airlines is joining with skyteam alliance and what about Continental & Northwest will able to join with SkyTeam Alliance anytime soon? Thanks!  Smile

User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4625 times:

All these carriers that haven't had commitments to join sky team, but AEROFLOT? When will we get AEROFLOT?!?!??!
-UN



What now?
User currently offlineKdonohue From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4559 times:

Connector4you,

I can confirm it from the lips of Mr. Lixandru. How's that for a source?

K.


User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4440 times:

That's a good source indeed Ken.

Unfortunately the latest news coming from Tarom is that they are contemplating again on axing the 30 years old Bucharest - Timisoara - New York run !!?? Their last connection with North America! I can't believe this. To me, that will be a big mistake no matter what. Tarom started an aggressive Romanian press campaign of wailing about the cost of running this flight. Personally I flew this route this past September and I can tell that the occupancy rate was close to 100%. The service was great with plenty of tasty food (three meals) and complementary good old Romanian wines. Two good American movies (The Italian Job - one of them) free of charge! And all this in Economy! The on time performance at destination (both ways) was amazing . . .

Wonder if cutting off this traditional flight is a precondition for accession to Sky Team Alliance? There were recent rumors in the Romanian press that Delta is currently looking at a possible Atlanta - Timisoara - Bucharest to be included in their 2004 Summer schedule.


User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7411 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4428 times:

A few month ago, everybody was laughing at SkyTeam...It's quite funny to see all these airlines who want to join Skyteam now !!!

It's the first time I hear the name of TAROM on the list to join SkyTeam !!!
What are you sources ?

Next in line (for sure ) to join SkyTeam in a close future are : CONTINENTAL, NORTHWEST, AEROFLOT, SOUTH AFRICAN AIRWAYS, MEA, TUNIS AIR, ROYAL AIR MAROC .

KLM of course will be part of SkyTeam after the complete merging with AF in march/april 2004.

MALYSIA AIRLINES and TAP Air Portugal are also in talks to join Skyteam.


User currently offlineJU101 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 832 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4409 times:

I was happy to see Tarom progress from what it was not so long ago, however i think this new membership in "Skyteam" is not very benefitial to the airline. This airline would simply become a feeder to its partners in the west. Does it really want to fall into that position? I think not.

Connector4you,
You have to remember that summer is the best time of year for most airline companies. By the end of september, transatlantic travel falls significantly, thus explaining the dissatisfaction amongst operators. If Tarom didnt generate enough profit during the summer, then it certainly would not have enough resources to cover the flight for the rest of the year. Hope they find demand to keep it running.

My to cents.


User currently offlineDeltaBoy777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4378 times:

Any plans to add an airline to an alliance would benefit all the airlines involved. I haven't heard of this rumor before, and will confirm it as soon as I get information. I do believe however, that SkyTeam is getting a little concentrated in Eastern Europe. With all these alliances, it would be hard for these airlines to keep from competing with each other. We'll see how it goes.

~DeltaBoy777~



Thanks and Gig Em!
User currently offlineAirplanetire From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4359 times:

This is really great! If you look at my profile, you'll see that Skyteam is my favorite alliance, so I'm obviously excited. Skyteam does seem to be getting a bit overcrowded in Europe now. With Air France, Alitalia, and CSA already in it, with KLM and likely Tarom and Aeroflot joining, I just can't help but think that the European airlines in Skyteam are getting the short straw with this alliance.

On another note, I wonder why Skyteam is suddenly seeing more activity in new members. Star seems way overcrowded by now, but One World is probably stronger than Skyteam. It has major airlines on all continents except Africa (all alliances lack someone here though) with more "first rate" airlines so to speak. Please don't be offended by that if your favorite airline is a Skyteam one, but the alliance lacks any airlines thought to be really good. One World has LAN Chile, Cathay Pacific, and BA. If I were an airline (here I go into armchair CEO mode  Smile), I'd maybe want to join One World because of their generally better coverage and then as a side note of good airlines.

-Airplanetire


User currently offlineJU101 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 832 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4338 times:

Well I never said that Tarom will not benefit, but I did say that it is probable that it wouldn't be by much. For the most part, we should ask ourselves about the expenditures of having an alliance. The bureaucracy costs lots of money.

The fact that this specific alliance is overcrowding this part of Europe makes no sense either. I ask all of you two questions:

1. What benefit is Skyteam for Tarom?
2. What benefit is Tarom for Skyteam?


User currently offlineKdonohue From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4285 times:

Tarom will end its JFK service and will likely feed its passengers to Alitalia for the trans-atlantic leg.

User currently offlineSteph001 From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 315 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4215 times:

What about Tarom's A-310 ? Will they get rid of them if they won't fly to JFK, or will they use them on other routes (maybe eastern Canada?)?

User currently offlineJU101 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 832 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4173 times:

I notice all who have praised the news of the alliance expansion still havent answered my two questions.

Answers???


User currently offlineSteph001 From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 315 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4154 times:

@JU101: Skyteam would obviously benefit from passengers traveling from Romania to the US or Canada if the OTP-JFK flight will be dropped off and Tarom will not be offering any other service to the States or to Canada. My question again: does this mean, Tarom will give up its A-310 fleet?
On the other hand, Tarom could have a chance to get stronger in terms of passenger traffic from the Middle East to Central and Western Europe through their hub in OTP, but I must admit I don't know how good the coverage of Skyteam in the Middle East is.

My 2 cents only..


User currently offlineKdonohue From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4115 times:

They still use the -310s to serve Beijing. Sort of. Flights were cancelled due to SARS and last I heard they haven't been reinstated.

User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4113 times:

DaV,
Perhaps "crowded" it's a bit too strong of a word for SkyTeam. Let's see . . . Oneworld have four European airlines, Aer Lingus, British Airways, FinnAIR, Iberia. STAR Alliance got even more: Austrian Airlines, bmi, Lauda, Lot Polish , Lufthansa, SAS, Spanair, Tyrolean. Now, that's eight on my count. Going to SkyTeam we have Air France, Alitallia, CSA Czech, KLM and Tarom. That's just one more than Oneworld and three less than STAR. I believe Europe and North America are very important playground for any of the above alliances. Geographically speaking Romania is right on the flying path from Western Europe to Middle East, Africa, Far East, Japan and Australia and just eight-nine hours away from New York.

OD720
The four Airbus 318 ordered by Tarom are scheduled to be delivered in 2005-2006. Two more Boeing NG 737-700 will enter Tarom's fleet this month and next month.

ScottysAir
I think SkyTeam needs Continental and Northwest in order to compete successfully with Star and Oneworld on the American playground. They will certainly join the SkyTeam very soon.

UN_B732
Aeroflot could be a good gain for any alliance.

FLYSSC
It's the first time I hear the name of TAROM on the list to join SkyTeam !!!

It's probably because you joined the Airliners.net just 75 days ago (just kidding OK ?). By the way Welcome to the best Civil Aviation Forum in the World (and I mean it)

JU101
Nice words pal. Appreciated! It's too early to speculate about Tarom's future role in SkyTeam. Usually long-term strategies are kept secret by airlines and alliances. Sure thing Tarom's travelers will get a bunch of world destination for much cheaper rates than they had so far and of course . . . SkyTeam fidelity points. As far as I know Romania still got some 23 mil potential flyers, so all in all a nice chunk of market for SkyTeam! All good, but . . . I would never ever give up the non-stop direct connection to New York.

Ken
I agree that Tarom - like any other airline this year - didn't generate enough profit in the summer but that alone is not a reason to quit the North American market. With no exception all other small European airlines currently flying to New York are in a similar state of affairs. But hey wait a minute, don't jump yet, it seems that the market it's on a fast track of recovery. All you have to do now is to be patient, hang-on, wait . . . for the next big crest to take that well deserved joy-ride,. Doesn't make any sense to me to give-in right when your roller coaster is on its way up, does it ?!?

In my opinion all airline members of an alliance should be encouraged to keep their existent intercontinental flights alive so that alliance's customers could have a choice of - American, French, Italian, Czech, Dutch, Korean, Mexican, Romanian - portion of culture, creativity, general hospitality, cuisine, wines, etc. That's how you truly SPICE & FLAVOR a particular alliance and make it distinct from all others.

Steph001
The final decision to stop the OTP-TSR-JFK haven't been taken yet. If that's gonna happen, than both wide body Airbus 310-325 ET will likely be going on wet/dry lease accordingly to Tarom's Marketing Manager.



User currently offlineJU101 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 832 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4030 times:

I am glad to see there are lots of people interested in Tarom. Well anyways i do have one comment to make regarding the future of the company, and the airport in Bucharest.

Many friends from Romania have told me that Bucharest is not quite a desired place to fly in to. I was actually surprised when they told me that. In any event, they said that the mentality of the people at the airport is poor, and their hospitality is as it was in the days of communism. Perhaps this may be exaggerated, but i am sure that this problem does exist over there. So this is one parameter that certainly must change if developing OTP as a hub will succeed.

Nevertheless i do feel pessimistic about this. If Tarom joins the alliance, i am sure that neither Air France, KLM, Alitallia, or CSA are interested in terminating their flights to the far east in favor of Tarom (which it does not operate anyways). Furthermore the market between western and central Europe to the Middle East is already well developed, except for departures from Prague. But this is certainly not enough to make Bucharest into a hub.

Besides having 22.3 million inhabitants, its standards are still far behind its neighbours to the west. In the long run we would hope that with correct investment and efficient institutional organisation, this country will be able to expand in an economic sense. Nevertheless, I find that many Romanians living in the northern and western portions of the country (including TSR) tend to travel to BUD or BEG for their international travels.

Overall i still do not see how Tarom will truely benefit from this alliance. In my view, haulting transatlantic flights is a step backwards. I must say that I am not advocating routes to be flown for prestige, but I do think that Tarom could do more to improve its position on the transatlantic market. I hope they come back to Canada some day!


User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4023 times:

Let me just say that things are a little far from being as "bad" as your "friends" told you. I am quite sure that SkyTeam representatives have thoroughly monitored the Romanian airline for a good period of time now, in order to evaluate its service standards.

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Bucharest Otopeni is entering these days a second stage development and upgrade worth Euro 44 mil, few months ago a new domestic terminal has been upgraded to western standards and so on. But you can read about all this and other future Romanian aviation developments by visiting my website at http://aviationromania.homestead.com/Overview.html

Since Tarom stopped its Montreal run few years back Romanians are indeed traveling to Budapest to catch a non-stop direct flight to Toronto, Canada. Belgrade is not a major destination for Romanians anymore. Used to be 15 - 20 years ago when JAT was a very cheap airline to fly to New York. Currently there are no flights whatsoever between the two countries. On the contrary business travelers from Serbia are often using Tarom, Carpatair, Malev, Austrian, Club Air out of Timisoara - TSR. Pretty soon LCC Volareweb will land to Timisoara enticing even more low-budget travelers to drive across the border into Romania. So times have definitely changed a bit.

Reality is that foreign investments and tourism are booming all over Romania as we speak, and that alone will drive up cargo and passenger air-traffic at levels never seen before in that region!





User currently offlineOD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1924 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3968 times:

they said that the mentality of the people at the airport is poor, and their hospitality is as it was in the days of communism.

This is a common problem in many East European and CIS countries but be patient, it will change.
Air travel will grow significantly in these countries as more people will be able to afford it by time.

I lived in the Soviet Union in the late 80s and there was so much air travel because people could afford it. Now the ecomomies of East Europe are recovering and I see the region as a quite good potential market and the 23 million Romanians are part of that.
So the addition of Tarom and probably Aeroflot is a good move in my opinion.

Also I don't see why they should stop flying to JFK. If the yields are good, they will keep on flying and if not, they will use someone else's services thus saving the airline any loss on a particular route. This is one reason of being in an alliance.


User currently offlineJU101 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 832 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3869 times:

Connector4you,

You clearly misunderstood what i said earlier. I did not by any means question the service of Tarom. I am well aware that the standards of this airline either meet or exceed those of many western carriers. Its simply a good airline to fly with. However, my comments on service was associated with Bucharest Airport. Investment in buildings and infrastructure will not change the mentality and hospitality of the airport workers overnight, particularly customs agents.

With economic development it is no doubt that the Romanian market will be more interesting. This is the most populous nation in Southeast Europe, so we could conclude that Skyteam is perhaps looking more in the long term than at present. Nothing wrong with that. I just hope Tarom don't become a feeder for transatlantic flights, since i know they can do better.

Your comments about pax coming from Serbia to travel through Timisoara is only marginally correct. This case is rare, and would include two bordering towns close to the Romanian border, not far from Timisoara. For those two towns, traveling to Timisoara is more convenient than going to Belgrade or Budapest. The same could be said for bordering Romanian communities that are farther from Timisoara and Bucharest, but closer to Belgrade. Furthemore, not long ago JAT even had scheduled bus lines that carried pax from Timisoara to Belgrade Airport. Since then, more companies began flying to TSR, and the bus line was discontinued in 2001.

Cheers


User currently offlineSteph001 From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 315 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3827 times:

Hello JU101,

I am using the airport in Bucharest ( OTP ) two or three times each year for about five years. I can tell you that I had no problem, neither with customs or border police, nor with lost luggage. Usually you can clear customs and get your baggage back in about 20-30 minutes after arriving in OTP.

Cheers


User currently offlineJU101 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 832 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

Sometimes it is difficult to gauge the validity of second hand accounts and experiences, and clearly this is an example where two people contradict one another. Well in any event i am sure my friends over exaggerated their bad experience at OTP. Glad to hear some people with good things to say. Many thanks!

Milan


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