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Great Lakes Airlines  
User currently offlineVw From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 251 posts, RR: 1
Posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4267 times:

I am interested in some of the history of the unique airline. I have read much about them on their website. Do you know why they pulled their headquarters out of Spencer,IA? I am from Iowa so could you tell me about some of the routes that they had in the past like out of Spencer or Ottumwa. If you have an older route map to post that would be great! Thank for your help. Vw

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24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineVw From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 251 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4178 times:

No one has any info?

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24964 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4161 times:
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I'm afraid I can't help you much with the history, but this is what I know about the present and recent past.

They used to have hubs at Chicago, Minneapolis and Denver, and flew as a United Express carrier (the good times). Then UAL ended the Express contract and changed it to a sort of code share (the start of the bad times).

This new arrangement, plus 9/11, really hurt Great Lakes to a point where their auditors questioned the airlines ability to survive.

Great Lakes has down-sized considerably. Chicago has gone and Minneapolis is down to one or two flights. Everything is concentrated at Denver.

Two small pieces of good news happened:

(i) Raytheon agreed to spectacularly generous terms for the Beech aircraft, which is probably why Great Lakes is still flying.

(ii) Frontier began a code share with Great Lakes, which helped a little.

Then more bad news: United threatened to end it's code share altogether. In the end, UAL changed their mind, but the new contract had a nasty clause - UAL could fly it's Express jets on routes that were previously only Great Lakes.

Frontier and Great Lakes got a bit closer. Great Lakes started service to Rapid City and Grand Junction as a code share with Frontier (both cities are served by UAX).

And then one more: Frontier "gave" Great Lakes the contract for it's service from Denver to Wichita.

Tjis last one might - stress might - be a bit of a plum for Great Lakes, but I don't know if it's enough to save the airline. I think the EAS subsidies to the very small cities are doing that.

Howsumever, it's clear that both Raytheon and Frontier hope that Great Lakes survives. I have no idea how much either of them can help.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGeg2rap From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 848 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4120 times:

The rap-den route seems to be doing well they have been full everytime I have been on it and the first 3 weeks of service (sturgis rally and summer) they told the local paper they were booked straight, so hopefully they will be able to eek some revenue out of rapid
GEG2RAP


User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4093 times:

My opinion is this company has a lot of possibilities, but they are definitely having some major finacial woes. (The McDonalds in the DEN airport won't even accept their meal vouchers) They really could do some great things, if they would get rid of non EAS routes that are not turning any money.
They need to re-vamp their website. (Many Middle School students do a better job) They are in an area of the country where they could do great off their website selling their own tickets. Their comapny news is usually 6-8 months old.
The should look at doing a DEN-SUN run with their EMB120's, and even pick up some DEN-JAC with their EMB120's for winter. These runs would run at 90% or more all winter long, (yes even if DL & UA serve the same routes) It would create a lot more revenue for them than some of those routes they are now doing.
Additonally they have a real "consumer brand" recognititon problem in the area they serve, with a name like they have. "Great Lakes Airlines" operating in Rural
Wyoming & Kansas Cities. A new name would help them immensely. They need to look at a total makeover, including new exteriors (a little paint) for their old UAEX livery, that looks like a bandaid answer to no longer being associated to the degree they were with UA.
With a little attention on their part, some minor area marketing, some attention to their website, and an analysis of some routes that need some attention they could become a real viable company.


User currently offlineLastBaron From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 290 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4051 times:

Interesting how some corporations seem to have the notion that moving from their original seat to an entirely new area doesn't necessitate a name change, or that their old name has so much brand recognition and loyalty that customers will follow... SunValley is right - the logic of having an airline serving rural Wyoming and Kansas City named Great Lakes is ridiculous, just as it was one of the causes that led to the demise of Midway II after their relocation from MDW to RDU. Makes me wonder who is in the exec offices sometimes...  Confused

User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4027 times:

I used to work for Great Lakes in Sterling/Rock Falls, Illinois.
If you contact me I have some older GLA schedules and pics....etc....

Access-Air



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24964 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4002 times:
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SunValley:

I agree about the website. They start flying DEN/ICT on November 1, and it was only three days ago that you could even book that route on the website.

Part of the problem is that Frontier doesn't accept bookings for DEN/ICT either, even though it's a code share. You can book, say, SFO or LAX to ICT, but not DEN/ICT, because that has to be purchased in conjuction with a connecting ticket.

I can't see why Frontier doesn't accept the bookings, because the money is going to go to Great Lakes anyway, but the same condition applies to Rapid City and Grand Junction.

The route map is awful and out of date - ICT isn't even there. I keep hoping to see some improvement, because these days the website is the first point of contact for most people - but so far, no luck.

(It matters a bit to me because I own a very few shares in Great Lakes, which I've had since the good old days).

I agree about the name change, too, but I'm not sure what else they'd call it - Mountain Lakes?

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3988 times:

Mariner, according to the Govt PTO (patent & trademark office) Western Airlines is now available. So is, Air West, Bonanza & Mountain West Airlines, as well as Rocky Mountain Airways.

Any of these names would be more appropriate for this company, than "Great Lakes". Whatever does that have to do with Cody WY?


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24964 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3950 times:
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SunValley:

Thanks for that good info. I'd pick Rocky Mountain Airways myself, but Mountain West would be okay, too.

What am I saying - I'd take anything over Great Lakes.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSerge From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1989 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3866 times:

Hi,

History of "ZK" is available on their website:

http://www.greatlakesav.com/gla_history.htm

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Wouldn't it be nice to see the frontier scheme on great lakes birds? Someone did that on flight sim for a B1900, I might post a screenshot in a few..

Serge


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24964 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3846 times:
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Serge:

Well, this Great Lakes plane has a "critter on the tail" - a bit like Frontier - but only a little bit!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


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cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3799 times:

Actually, Great Lakes had asked United to renegotiate the contract so that Lakes could fly into some more lucrative markets with Frontier. Remember, United has pushed Great Lakes out of almost *ALL* of their profitable routes and handed them to other carriers. Springfield, IL; Lansing, Mich; Traverse City, Mich; Fargo ND; Sioux Falls SD.. the list goes on. United pretty much gave Lakes the finger and screwed Great Lakes... now Lakes is learning how to combat United without doing it in a fighting way.

You'll see more Great Lakes planes enter United Express markets in the upcoming months, and you'll also see Lakes start making some more cash.

In regards to the website, it was originally designed back in 1997 & I assisted with it. I'm even surprised they use some of the original graphics.

-nate


User currently offlineCRJmx From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3764 times:

I think that part of Great Lakes' woes has to do with the decline of interest in the turbo-props. Airlines would rather fly RJ's than TP's because the passengers would rather fly on RJ's than TP's. I don't blame them, have you seen Great Lakes' 1900's? A wash every once in a while would at least give the passengers a little better image.



When it hits your lips, it's so good!!
User currently offlineSerge From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1989 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3733 times:

I don't think these pax will be flying a TP anytime soon again:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20030826X01395&key=1

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Mariner: I wish there was more then just those 4 B1900Ds with the special scheme... Its nice though that all 4 have visited ISN numerous times, I have some more pix to upload of the Grand Teton one too one of these days...


User currently offlineCRJmx From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3721 times:

I hate when that happens!!



When it hits your lips, it's so good!!
User currently offlineLymanm From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3713 times:

I read somewhere that Mesaba actually owns a significant amount of Great Lakes...any truth to this?


buhh bye
User currently offlineSerge From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1989 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3705 times:

At least it would have made for good pics if you were in 1A  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24964 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3683 times:
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SegmentKing:

UAL did indeed give Great Lakes the finger, but what you say is good news.

The only puzzle to me is this: if most of the Great Lakes flights out of Denver are code shares with Frontier, is UAL going to be agreeable to letting Great Lakes back in - and thus, indirectly, Frontier?

As to the website, even though you helped design it, I think you'd agree it sorely needs an update.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Serge: I'd love to see those pics.

Lymanm: I hadn't heard about Mesaba owning any part of Great Lakes, but it would cost yoiu a total of $3 million to buy 51% of the company (and thus control) at the present share price.

However, someone has been buying quite a lot of Great Lakes shares (GLUX) this past week or two. Usually, about 100 shares change hands a day (average) but last week the blocks were up in the thousands, and the price is at a 52 week high.

As SegmentKing suggests, I have a feeling that these is more to this story than we know.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3632 times:

SegmentKing, Measba owns 0% of Great Lakes, it is BigSky Airlines from Billings MT that they own.

User currently offlineSerge From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1989 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3584 times:

Here we go:



Would be quite nice


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24964 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3564 times:
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Serge:

That's great - you made my day.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAsmtrd From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3522 times:

I would love to see great lakes fly in to Aberdeen SD. With a new terminal completed and the only service is to MSP it would be great to be able to go west.

User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3479 times:

i could have sworn i saw doug voss drinking the kool aid with glenn titlon at the ual summer get together,,,maybe he was tellin doug to keep flying to page az,home to dougs i mean the great lakes party barge/board room,,,,after all if ual was gonna go for the zk jugular wouldnt they go for the crown jewel of saf??????


bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3451 times:

I presume you are referring to the house boat on Lake Powell, underwritten by the airline in the name of marketing?

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