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Collenette Threatens To Ban El Al From Canada  
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5354 times:

Canadian Transport Minister David Collenette says Canada will assess the future of El Al flights to Toronto following a second security threat this week against the airline.

El Al has been flying into Toronto for 20 years. It has its own security personnel at Pearson Airport and what it calls the most sophisticated X-ray machines available, the same level of airport security the airline says it has worldwide.

Even so, Collenette says El Al's future in Canada is being re-examined. "As to subsequent El Al flights, that is something we'll have to deliberate, given the intelligence we receive."

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/10/24/elal031024





31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8195 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5306 times:

El Al have tried to fly to Sydney in the past but as I understand it, Israeli secret service or whatever need certain levels of access and autonomy at airports where El Al fly to ensure the security of their national airline's operations and aircraft, which the Australian gov't aren't willing to grant.

It would be disastrous for Canada if there was a terrorist attack on their soil, despite their proximity to the US they seem to have stayed out of most of the so-called "war on terror", the "Air Canada to Beirut" debacle notwithstanding. I can't see them actually banning El Al but I can see why it's being discussed.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5284 times:

Expect the future of Air Canada in Tel Aviv to be "assessed" as well, if this movement gains momentum.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5284 times:

It would be disastrous for Canada if there was a terrorist attack on their soil

Actually, the world's worst act of aviation terrorism prior to September 11 - namely the bombing of AI 182 in 1985 was hatched on Canadian soil and wound up killing over 200 Canadian citizens.


User currently offlineJeffrey1970 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1336 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5175 times:

Canada is also very much a participant in the War on Terrorism since they have many soldiers fighting in Afghanistan.

God bless through Jesus,

Jeff



God bless through Jesus, Jeff
User currently offlineAlonk From Israel, joined May 2001, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5112 times:

El Al dint try to fly to sydney. Sun D'or,a company owned by El Al wanted to fly charter flights utilising the El Al 777's out of BKK and HKG, but because of the tight schedule the flights wouldnt make it back on time to BKKHKG so the idea was dropped,it surely wasnt because of securtiy resaons.
Another thing is that if El Al will stop flying to YYZ,AC will stop as well,and El Al will most likely cut the code share agreements they have with AC.El Al has a pretty wide codesharing agreement with delta to let them cease the flights to canda and let DL fly thier customers out of EWRJFK to continuing destinations in canada.Another thing is that the flights to canda only fly through YYC in order to reduce the aircraft's time on the ground on thier way to LAX.there are not that many pax's that fly into canda on EL AL,most of them continue onto LAX.LY could resume flying through ORD and EWR thier LY105 flights and continue on from there to LAX...so to sum it all up,if LY stops flying to Canada,the only big issue would be a political one.
Alon
Israel


User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4994 times:

Oddly enough, American airliners are just as likely to face a terror attack as EL AL, and god knows a lot more US airliners fly to Canada than EL AL. Odd that we don't see him talking of banning the US carriers. Seems fair ... not

Before someone talks about lack of security alerts with US carriers, I can assure you that way more US Carriers divert to Canada for these things than for EL AL. Take 9.11 for instance, Canada was loaded with US aircraft.

Lastly, if the terrorist is going to try and blow up an EL AL plane, isn't the terrorist in the wrong, and therefore the terrorist should be banned, rather than the EL AL plane, what the hell did the 300 holiday makers do wrong other than be Jewish ?


User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4943 times:

With regards to the side-issue about El Al and SYD- I heard the El Al security staff wished to carry guns and the Australian Federal Police (airport falls under their juristiction) would not permit this under any circumstances.

User currently offlineCospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4856 times:

EL AL staff have to carry guns so they can "take care of business" if needed without the assistace of airport police..most recently at LAX when an EL AL security agent shot a gunman at the ticket counter, EL AL is just as worried about the check in counter as the Aircraft..but I cant belive Australia would not let EL AL security 'work' the counter they do this all over the world..

EL AL is a target and they need to be allowed to do things their own way..I'm sure the AFP would not block out EL AL from Australia just because of this..


User currently offlineJsmith From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4767 times:

A colleague of mine who used work in the legal dept of El Al in Tel Aviv told me that the security issue mentioned above (the refusal by the Australian authorities to let Israeli security 'do their own thing' here) was indeed one of the principal reasons why El Al do not fly to Australia.

User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4638 posts, RR: 36
Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4766 times:

Maybe somebody should tell Collenette that you can't get to Israel by Via Rail.


Word
User currently offlineCospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4700 times:

I think Australia should re think that..It is really no big deal, Armed security guards..as long as they attend whatever training classes the AFP want them to go through I'm sure they could breaze through the classes..

User currently offlineFlyboyqf From Australia, joined Sep 2003, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4597 times:

Im glad Australia doesnt want Israeli Secret Service/Security or whatever at our airports. Just because they have them in other parts of the world doesnt mean we should have them here. Nothing would antagonise potential trouble makers more than armed Israeli goons stomping around Australian airports

User currently offlineCospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4584 times:

They dont stomp around , they are undercover and use small pistols .22's I belive, don't know..They know what to look for and can speak Hebrew and Arabic..not sure manny Aussies can..It is no different than George Bush bringing some of his 'boys' along for the ride.when he goes overseas..I dont see anyone objecting to MEA of Lebanon flying to Australia..this is the world we are living in and Australia and Canada should not try to keep out EL AL or anyone else just because, of hurt feelings or whatever..onething for sure no Sept 11 EVER on El AL..

User currently offlineFlyboyqf From Australia, joined Sep 2003, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4548 times:

Cospn,
The point im trying to make here is that our airports dont need even more armed personnel undercover or otherwise at our airports.Our Federal Police should be sufficient and do a great job already (i know from personal experience as an airline employee). Also you really cant compare the one time circus of Bush last week to the possibility of several weekly scheduled El Al flights in/out of Australia with all the security issues that would entail. If that alone serves to fuel any resentement amongs rival groups in this country then i personally wouldnt like El Al flying here. We are a safe, peaceful and extremely multi cultural society and yes Cospn, ALOT of people here speak Hebrew and Arabic and im sure all share a desire to keep our unique Australian way of life as safe as possible.
Cheers


User currently offlineDanielbk From Israel, joined Feb 2003, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4490 times:

I have nothing against this post.

I think most of the forum members who deal with LY issues know my stand.

but it's interesting to see, the few of us who know and usually respond to
EL AL issues, to which subjects we post our opinions, and to which we refrain for various reasons..




cockpit? it's that little room in the front of the plane where the pilots seat.. but that's not important now
User currently offlineCaptainStabbin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4361 times:

Looks like the threat was real.

User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4337 times:

I don't know where I stand on this issue of El Al's own security. It strikes me as a Sovereignty issue. It will take some contemplation.

I do know that it was right of Minister Collenette to bring up the issue before a decision was made. It is not right, however, to single-out El Al. American Airlines is just as likely to be hit by a terrorist attack as LY.

I think the real difference as far as that is concerned is the economic impact of removing AA, UA, US, etc, from the Canadian marketplace. Removing LY has almost no impact what-so-ever. The others have a much greater impact overall.

Just my two cents.

[Edited 2003-10-26 16:48:37]


Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineQuebecair727 From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4292 times:

An attack on a plane from Canadian soil happened in the past. If I am not mistaking, this the very first case of a bomb aboard an airplane.


http://www.airsafe.com/events/us_bomb.htm

9 September 49, Quebec Airways (Canadian Pacific Airlines) DC3, near Sault Au Cochon, Quebec: Bomb explodes in number one forward baggage compartment about 40 miles (64 km) from Quebec. The crash killed 23. Three individuals were later executed for the crime.


User currently offlineCayman From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4246 times:

I think the real point here is the utter ineptitude, incompetence and malfeasance (again) of these clowns known as the Ottawa Liberal government. Collenette is perhaps the worst of the bunch, if you don't include the biggest loser of all, Chretien himself. Any Canadians out there reading this (I am one too), should be ashamed of themselves if they ever voted for Chretien and his corrupt cronies who have single handedly made Canada a joke in the world.

That Collenette would have the gall to consider baninng the flights rather than addressing the real concern which is proper security speaks volumes of how far out of touch with reality the idiot Liberals are.

And to those of you Toronto Star raeders who will inevitably respond with some tired old defence of "Liberal" values: keep up the good work on your efforts to ensure a poorer future standard of living and security for Canada.


User currently offlineCaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1639 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4209 times:

If it was a shoulder held missle launcher how can added airport security protect anyone from that? The launcher could be meters or kilometers away from the airport and still shoot the jet down despite all sorts of added high tech equipment and extra security guards... These things are apparantly accureate to 4 kilometers.

Will banning flights solve the problem. Essentially yes, for Toronto at least and with respect to El Al flights only... but it would also mean we caved into terrorists and they got perhaps an alternative to what their original intentions were.. Would this also mean banning El Al from flying anywhere to solve the problem of planes being shot down? Yes, again for El Al only, but it would also mean El Al and Isreal would be caving in to them. None of this is going to happen or should it.

I think the ultimate solution is trying to genuinely make efforts at resolving the issues that lead to people becoming terrorists that have it as their mission blowing planes out of the sky. Not just look for solutions that deal with the symptoms of their anger.

Cayman - I see your point on the Liberal government in Canada but there is one major problem in Canadian politics. There is no real alternative. All we have as alternatives are niche parties that cater to regional needs. They will never be elected and will always be in the House of Commons with no power other than to voice complaints for people and "hope" they can influence the actual government in power. There needs to be a real National opposition and one that has a genuine chance of forming a government, not just complaining about the current one. Right now the Liberal are the only such party that can fill that roll whether we like it or not. So in effect we put Transport Minister Collenette there and we have to live with him and the status quo until we as a country change things to make it all better.

[Edited 2003-10-26 17:39:25]

User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4194 times:

Collenette sounds like just another grandstanding politician.

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4146 times:

Cospn,

MEA doesn't require secret undercover agents walking around airports with pistols. They don't do that at any of the destinations they serve.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5300 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4075 times:

BA,

Maybe that's because terrorists don't like blowing up an Arab airliner?


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (11 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4029 times:

Maybe that's because terrorists don't like blowing up an Arab airliner?

Really? Then why was a Royal Jordanian 727 blown up by Palestinian terrorists?

Anyways, that was not the point. The point is MEA does not have agents that go around undercover carrying pistols.

Cospn was saying that it is strange that Australia banned El Al because El Al requires undercover agents in the airports, when Australia didn't ban MEA.

And the reason is because MEA doesn't require undercover agents operating at airports which is why Australia would not block MEA from operating.

Same goes with any other Arab carrier or ANY other carrier in the world period.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
25 AWspicious : "Last week's attack threat come three moths after a Croatian man made a bomb threat near an El Al ticket counter, and one month after a St. Catharines
26 CaptainStabbin : Cayman, I hang my head in shame as I voted for that moron of a PM the first time around. It was more out of sympathy than anything else as I was disgu
27 B747-437B : The Red Star is the most circulated newspaper in Canada now. Yes, it even beats out nationals such as the National Post (which was terrific until they
28 GARUDAROD : Fyi, EL AL Security do not only carry pistols. They carry full automatic weapons, ie machine guns or Uzis. I think that the Australian Govt has banne
29 CaptainStabbin : I read both the Star and the Post every day and I think they are both guilty of slanting the news to suit their political agendas. IMHO, that makes th
30 Cospn : BA, and Flyboyqf.. I don't want to get in to an Arab/ Israel..thing but countries like the UK, Australia, and the USA, Canada should not be excluding
31 Flyboyqf : Cospn, I have no trouble with visitors from Tel Aviv, Beirut or wherever. I welcome all international tourists as part of my job and as a proud Austra
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