Yqfca From Canada, joined Jun 2001, 156 posts, RR: 0 Posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5118 times:
I read in a article featured in a Dutch publication that says that if the French government continues to reduce its chares in Air France (as it supposed to) the Dutch government will let go of its option to the shares in KLM. The option is kept to retain the landing rights the Netherlands has in foreign airports. If this continues as planned the name KLM may be dropped in 2008.
A KLM employee I called confirmed this statement.
I find this horrific.
Many nations advertise their excistence and cloud in commercial trade by their flag carriers. This means that if KLM disappears Holland would be not much more then a "province" of the EEC.
Will remain and forever more in the hearts and in the souls of the people who built such a magnificent airline. KLM, may fly into history just as Concorde... yet another sign that "Civilized Travel", is coming to an end!
Caribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1637 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4725 times:
Perhaps SkyTeam members will all fly under a single banner... something like "Alliance" or simply "SkyTeam" so no single nation stands out over the others. I think this is inevitable but it will take time to get to this point. It would be sad to see "KLM" dissappear but I think so will Air France, Delta and other well know brands also.
Planeguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4575 times:
Well if they must merge the two carriers, why not do so using some pan-european sounding name like "Euravia" and adopt a compromised looking tri-color livery resembling that of the older Air Liberte (after all the Dutch and French flags have the same colors) and maybe slap a blue EU star design on the tail. Then, voila, another generic megacarrier would be born.
Nwacrew From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4523 times:
The disappearance of KLM would indeed be sad. But then the collapse of Sabena and Swissair was very sad. Unfortunately, there are too many national airlines in Europe with insufficient O&D traffic, all competing for the same interline passengers.
For years we've been reading that eventually just three big airlines will rule the skies in Europe: British Airways, Air France and Lufthansa. It may not come to that, but we can be certain that in the future, not every European country will have a flag carrier. It's going to be merge, or fail. I understand British Airways is presently negotiating to acquire Iberia...
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4304 posts, RR: 36
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4444 times:
It's simple economics which will count in the end. If the airline will attract more business retaining KLM, they will do so, and if one single brand has advantages, they'll ditch the KLM brand.
Here in Holland reactions on the KLM Air France merger are mostly based on emotional arguments. Mainly dutch frequent travellers fear they once will have to board a dirty white plane and when they address the F/A in Dutch, she will reply in a snappy tone that she "ne peut pas parler cette language vulgaire."
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4439 times:
I think 5 years is overly optimistic. Before those 5 years are over the airline carrying that proud old name will no longer exist anyway because their will be no aircraft flying carrying the name (their flights having been scrapped in an effort to 'consolidate' the network with Air France, in other words remove any destination served by Air France and shift all the others to Air France to be served from Paris).
Mas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4379 times:
It is sad indeed but
"...Holland would be not much more then a "province" of the EEC..."
is this not true already?
Brits here are still trying to cling on to the Sterling but once that goes - the UK will only follow suit to become another 'province'. We already have to comply with silly EU directives and laws which are often not applicable here in the UK...
Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12410 posts, RR: 37
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3840 times:
I think it is most unlikely that the KLM name would be allowed to die; remember, the airline will still have a big AMS base and you can't expect the Dutch simply to accept that "as of next January, KLM planes will be repainted in AF colours". It simply won't happen. KLM is, despite its Northwest association, still a strong brand name with strong brand loyalty; it would be corporate suicide to throw away a good brand name and I think the people in charge of KLM, as well as AF, know this.
Besides which, KLM will be the first major airline in the world to celebrate a centenary and you can bet that will be a big event.
It's not about nostalgia either; hard business sense will dictate that the name stays; there's quite a few examples of companies which threw away a good brand name - and none of those stories have happy endings. So, don't worry, the KLM name will long outlive the MD11s.
Besides which, you don't think AF will want MD11s painted in its livery?
Mais non, certainment pas!
SNBA319 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2003, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3449 times:
I agree with MEA-707; the brand will disappear, this is a business deal and no emotional ties from the Dutch can stop it.
Branding however is not unimportant; SNBA for instance is struggling to create its own brand whilst most people still immediately connect it to Sabena- or DAT. Those ties are stronger than one thinks and it could take a very long time before people have forgotten that. AF will know that.
But just talking about branding is not sufficient; there is more to taking over an airline than just changing the name or the livery. Not only will that cost a lot of money, and therefore take a lot of time, but it will take some internal patience making everybody adapt to the new corporate culture.
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3377 times:
I doubt KLM will disappear. That would be marketingwise unclever (killing an excellent brand is stupid, even Coca-Cola would be stupid to kill Pepsi if they would take-over) and would only drive away customers from the AF/KLM post-merger-company. And a new Dutch airline will rise and take part of the business mid-term.
Typical Merger-crap: Managers sit together and merge their companies, some get a payrise because the new company is bigger, others a "golden handshake".
The ordinary workforce will be reduced (some of them might find a job as drivers or gardeners for the managers who got rich through the golden handshake). And in the end part of the business will be lost because the united companies can´t keep it.
SNBA319 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2003, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3273 times:
That is also what I was wondering. Surely Martinair -and Transavia- won't be culled in the process of the takeover. These airlines form a strong bridge between fullservice KLM and budget Basiq Air. And will this mean the end of the Fokkerfleet in Dutch service?
Racko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (10 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3232 times:
That's called capitalism.
When Vodafone took over Mannesmann, a very old German brand name disappeared. But do you hear us crying Britain would've taken over Germany? Do you hear us crying that Germany is nothing more than a Province in the EU? Bentley and Rolls Royce were two of the most-recognizable British brand names in the world. Nowadays they are owned by VW and BMW. Still, I don't think Brits feel like their country doesn't exist anymore. In a few years, the name Chrysler will be nothing more than a brand of the Daimler-Benz AG, but I'm confident that the USA will remain indepedent.
Get a life, we're talking about companies, it's not like Air France has kidnapped your Queen.