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KLM Name Gone In Five Years.  
User currently offlineYqfca From Canada, joined Jun 2001, 156 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5136 times:

I read in a article featured in a Dutch publication that says that if the French government continues to reduce its chares in Air France (as it supposed to) the Dutch government will let go of its option to the shares in KLM. The option is kept to retain the landing rights the Netherlands has in foreign airports. If this continues as planned the name KLM may be dropped in 2008.
A KLM employee I called confirmed this statement.

I find this horrific.
Many nations advertise their excistence and cloud in commercial trade by their flag carriers. This means that if KLM disappears Holland would be not much more then a "province" of the EEC.

yqfca



29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5063 times:

KLM Name Gone In Five Years.
...while their MD-11s would remain for another 4 years after that



A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5039 times:

Single national government-owned flag-carrier? Very 20th-century.

As was the EEC.



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineKl777jfk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4944 times:

KLM...

In any case...


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Photo © MDVS



KLM... the Worlds Oldest Airline...


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Photo © Wietse de Graaf



Will remain and forever more in the hearts and in the souls of the people who built such a magnificent airline. KLM, may fly into history just as Concorde... yet another sign that "Civilized Travel", is coming to an end!



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Photo © Eric Meijer






KL777JFK


User currently offlineAirways6max From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4893 times:

Yeah, that is sad news. Less choice for the flying public.

User currently offlineCaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1637 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4743 times:

Perhaps SkyTeam members will all fly under a single banner... something like "Alliance" or simply "SkyTeam" so no single nation stands out over the others. I think this is inevitable but it will take time to get to this point. It would be sad to see "KLM" dissappear but I think so will Air France, Delta and other well know brands also.

User currently offlinePlaneguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4593 times:

Well if they must merge the two carriers, why not do so using some pan-european sounding name like "Euravia" and adopt a compromised looking tri-color livery resembling that of the older Air Liberte (after all the Dutch and French flags have the same colors) and maybe slap a blue EU star design on the tail. Then, voila, another generic megacarrier would be born.

User currently offlineNwacrew From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4541 times:

The disappearance of KLM would indeed be sad. But then the collapse of Sabena and Swissair was very sad. Unfortunately, there are too many national airlines in Europe with insufficient O&D traffic, all competing for the same interline passengers.

For years we've been reading that eventually just three big airlines will rule the skies in Europe: British Airways, Air France and Lufthansa. It may not come to that, but we can be certain that in the future, not every European country will have a flag carrier. It's going to be merge, or fail. I understand British Airways is presently negotiating to acquire Iberia...


User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4316 posts, RR: 36
Reply 8, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4462 times:

It's simple economics which will count in the end. If the airline will attract more business retaining KLM, they will do so, and if one single brand has advantages, they'll ditch the KLM brand.
Here in Holland reactions on the KLM Air France merger are mostly based on emotional arguments. Mainly dutch frequent travellers fear they once will have to board a dirty white plane and when they address the F/A in Dutch, she will reply in a snappy tone that she "ne peut pas parler cette language vulgaire."



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4457 times:

I think 5 years is overly optimistic. Before those 5 years are over the airline carrying that proud old name will no longer exist anyway because their will be no aircraft flying carrying the name (their flights having been scrapped in an effort to 'consolidate' the network with Air France, in other words remove any destination served by Air France and shift all the others to Air France to be served from Paris).


I wish I were flying
User currently offlineNwacrew From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4438 times:

Excuse me! I'm at Schiphol frequently and I suggest you check out the routinely filthy grey tails of KLM's Fokker fleet before casting stones at Air France!

User currently offlineMas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4397 times:

It is sad indeed but

"...Holland would be not much more then a "province" of the EEC..."

is this not true already?

Brits here are still trying to cling on to the Sterling but once that goes - the UK will only follow suit to become another 'province'. We already have to comply with silly EU directives and laws which are often not applicable here in the UK...


User currently offlineKAL744 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4097 times:

As KLm is my second favorite airline it is really very sad news to me if they disappear !

User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4066 times:

I think the name will not dissappear.

It is just on opinion of a dontknow in a far away newspaper..

Why ever remove the name, if have no clue on the advantages of that one.

KLM is a strong valuable Brand




User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3364 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4012 times:

I don't think that KLM's name will dissappear altogether either. Maybe we will get an TUI kind of operation. All TUI airlines have the same livery, but their own name... Britannia, Hapag Lloyd etc.


Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3910 times:

While KLM is one of the oldest three airlines it is not as old as Chalks or Avianca.


Chalks was born nearly three months before KLM and Avianca less then 1 month before KLM..

A C Vitale


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12431 posts, RR: 37
Reply 16, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3858 times:

I think it is most unlikely that the KLM name would be allowed to die; remember, the airline will still have a big AMS base and you can't expect the Dutch simply to accept that "as of next January, KLM planes will be repainted in AF colours". It simply won't happen. KLM is, despite its Northwest association, still a strong brand name with strong brand loyalty; it would be corporate suicide to throw away a good brand name and I think the people in charge of KLM, as well as AF, know this.

Besides which, KLM will be the first major airline in the world to celebrate a centenary and you can bet that will be a big event.

It's not about nostalgia either; hard business sense will dictate that the name stays; there's quite a few examples of companies which threw away a good brand name - and none of those stories have happy endings. So, don't worry, the KLM name will long outlive the MD11s.

Besides which, you don't think AF will want MD11s painted in its livery?
Mais non, certainment pas!


User currently offlineGoing64 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2002, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3715 times:

@ACVITALE: Sorry to correct you but Avianca was founded in 1933. It was a merge between Pan American's SCADTA (established indeed in 1919) and Servicio Aereo Colombiana.

User currently offlineAms From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1691 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3659 times:

I still dont understand why the KLM management made these agreements with AF. KLM flies to many destinations arround the world,
in my opinion AF and KLM have too many differences

KLM management wake up, or fire these people who made these silly agreements.

regards,

AMS


User currently offlineSNBA319 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2003, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 3467 times:

I agree with MEA-707; the brand will disappear, this is a business deal and no emotional ties from the Dutch can stop it.

Branding however is not unimportant; SNBA for instance is struggling to create its own brand whilst most people still immediately connect it to Sabena- or DAT. Those ties are stronger than one thinks and it could take a very long time before people have forgotten that. AF will know that.

But just talking about branding is not sufficient; there is more to taking over an airline than just changing the name or the livery. Not only will that cost a lot of money, and therefore take a lot of time, but it will take some internal patience making everybody adapt to the new corporate culture.


User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10697 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3395 times:

I doubt KLM will disappear. That would be marketingwise unclever (killing an excellent brand is stupid, even Coca-Cola would be stupid to kill Pepsi if they would take-over) and would only drive away customers from the AF/KLM post-merger-company. And a new Dutch airline will rise and take part of the business mid-term.
Typical Merger-crap: Managers sit together and merge their companies, some get a payrise because the new company is bigger, others a "golden handshake".
The ordinary workforce will be reduced (some of them might find a job as drivers or gardeners for the managers who got rich through the golden handshake). And in the end part of the business will be lost because the united companies can´t keep it.

Btw whats happening with Martinair?


User currently offlineReggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3349 times:


Good morning ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the United States of Europe!


User currently offlineSNBA319 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2003, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3291 times:

That is also what I was wondering. Surely Martinair -and Transavia- won't be culled in the process of the takeover. These airlines form a strong bridge between fullservice KLM and budget Basiq Air. And will this mean the end of the Fokkerfleet in Dutch service?

User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3250 times:

That's called capitalism.

When Vodafone took over Mannesmann, a very old German brand name disappeared. But do you hear us crying Britain would've taken over Germany? Do you hear us crying that Germany is nothing more than a Province in the EU? Bentley and Rolls Royce were two of the most-recognizable British brand names in the world. Nowadays they are owned by VW and BMW. Still, I don't think Brits feel like their country doesn't exist anymore. In a few years, the name Chrysler will be nothing more than a brand of the Daimler-Benz AG, but I'm confident that the USA will remain indepedent.

Get a life, we're talking about companies, it's not like Air France has kidnapped your Queen.


User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (10 years 10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3201 times:
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It's sad that a old and established brand name such as KLM might cease to exist in a few years time. Unfortunately, this is the tragic way the europeans are heading.



In Arsene we trust!!
25 JGPH1A : I don't see what the problem is with having a pan-European identity (for airlines or people) - that is what the EU is about, allowing all European cou
26 Tripple7 : @ SNBA319 KLM is going to sell it's stake in Martinair.
27 Kl911 : Martinair will be the perfect candidate to fill the gap when the KLM flights will move to CDG. They already have all the infrastructure in place at AM
28 SNBA319 : I was merely trying to approach the upcoming changes from the perspective of the brand value of KLM (in NL at least) and how Mr Spinetta could use its
29 Killerbabe : No way. KLM Will live on. It has strong partners in numerous areas and a lot of, political arranged landing-rights.... KLM Will stay....
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